Anatomy of a Black Hole

[Ferre]

Description for a better understanding of a black hole;

http://www.thinktechnologies.com/portfolio/demos/Blackhole.html

(It is a Flash presentation so you need flash player installed)

[Atom]

When I click the link I see only a large black screen with this in the center of it:

©Copyright 2003 Think Technologies, Inc. All Rights Reserved

[Ferre]

Try with another browser Atom, it might be the browser you're using isn't showing the flash.

[Atom]

Try with another browser Atom, it might be the browser you're using isn't showing the flash.Yes, that's the answer, thanks. Must be I don't have a proper FF plugin for that or something. I'll just watch it in a different browser.

[Ferre]

Yeah, I know the problem, usually I resort to Opera in those cases, Opera works pretty well when FF gives up.

[Atom]

Ok butt if Anatomy Of A Black Hole isn't some kind of sexual film then I'm not watching it.
Just so you know.
lol

[Atom]

That is interesting.

My leaning as far as what happens inside is toward the second theory. The third is interesting though.

[Atom]

I have a theory; if travel into the future is possible then the past may be much more significant than we realize.

[Atom]

Logically, the past does not exist.

[Strong]

That was interesting!

The infinite density and infinite gravitational force at the centre of a black hole is a nonsense. All it really represents is that our understanding of physics and mathematics collapses at that point and is no longer sufficient to explain what is happening. If anything, it only marks the boundary of human knowledge.

[Atom]

If only there were a way to sample the inside.

[Atom]

Something that dense you would think would not be invisible.

[Atom]

The Singularity especially.

[Strong]

As I understand it, a singularity is a single point in space, it has no dimensions. With it's gravity being infinite, nothing can escape it, so sampling of its innards is impossible by definition. The only way it can be observed is indirectly, that is by how it affects everything around it and how the material that gets caught up in it's influence reacts.

[Zap]

That was interesting!

The infinite density and infinite gravitational force at the centre of a black hole is a nonsense. All it really represents is that our understanding of physics and mathematics collapses at that point and is no longer sufficient to explain what is happening. If anything, it only marks the boundary of human knowledge.

I have my own black hole.


(It's also a boundry of human knowledge and I intend to keep it that way!)

[Strong]

There are some event horizons I don't need to know about :sqlaugh:

[Atom]

I can't imagine matter collapsing to infinite density and not being visible, the infinite gravity I understand would not allow light to escape to an outside observer but I'm thinking there should be visible matter if one could get close enough to view it.

[Halo]

I have my own black hole.


(It's also a boundry of human knowledge and I intend to keep it that way!)

Is it near your fuzzballs? :sqconfused:

Black hole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Fuzzballs)

[iowadawg]

There is another theory that at some point, black holes explode outwards and all energy is released.

The theory also may explain the big bang.

And it is interested that black holes come and go.
Some are like only an atom or a few atoms wide. (or big?).

[Strong]

I can't imagine matter collapsing to infinite density and not being visible, the infinite gravity I understand would not allow light to escape to an outside observer but I'm thinking there should be visible matter if one could get close enough to view it.

You said it yourself Atom.

You need light to see. By definition, what you see is reflected light off of an object. If the gravity is infinite, then light cannot escape a black hole's gravity, therefore it cannot be reflected to your eyes. Thus a black hole cannot be seen.

All you can ever see is what happens before the event horizon, which isn't the singularity (black hole).

[Strong]

There is another theory that at some point, black holes explode outwards and all energy is released.

The theory also may explain the big bang.

And it is interested that black holes come and go.
Some are like only an atom or a few atoms wide. (or big?).

A singularity has no dimensions, therefore it has no width, height or depth. It is said to have zero dimensions, thus it can have no bigness of any kind. It cannot be measured in that way, even if you go down to the atomic scale or even sub-atomic, it has no size.

[Atom]

(...)If the gravity is infinite, then light cannot escape a black hole's gravity, (...)This is the part that doesn't make sense, rather than light cannot escape, shouldn't it be light cannot exist?

[Strong]

There is the rub. We don't really understand what happens to stuff that passes beyond the event horizon. (Btw a quantum of light is physical stuff, it is a state of matter, if I'm not mistaken). Everything is torn into it's sub-atomic components as it approaches closer and closer to the singularity.

What happens when it contacts(?) the singularity is at present pure speculation. At that point you are dealing with infinities and zeros, physics breaks and our understanding breaks down at that point.

(And I am stretching to the limits of my understanding at this point. If Rank was here, he might take us a little further I guess, as would Stephen Hawkins, damnit where is he when you need him, lounging around in his wheel chair no doubt! :sqwink:)

[Atom]

I have an idea that photons (which constitute light) may be broken down by the force of this "infinite gravity" into smaller particles, that we are currently unaware of due to an inability to generate such infinite power, that in such a state it's (light's) fundamental properties may be altered, rendering the particles invisible to the human eye.

[Atom]

I'm thinking that it has to be something like that in light of the fact that matter cannot be destroyed.

[Strong]

Perhaps. Perhaps it all ends up on the FSM's dinner table, we have no way of knowing, or even thinking about it at present. Speculation/theories abound.

Although it is not just light, btw, it is everything that passes the event horizon, never leaves.

That said, I remember reading/seeing something about neutrinos escaping in a limited way. But again that may just be another theory.

[Atom]

I'm thinking that if the particles were broken down so small, but without an alteration in light's fundamental attribute, the smaller particles would still exhibit a collective detectable glow.

[Atom]

It may be a simple matter of the rules of light changing under such enormous pressure, and that includes the light by which we detect any and all matter in the vicinity of this black hole. Remember, light = energy.

[Atom]

What if light could reach a state where it did not = energy? It may then become undetectable.

[ewomack]

Who wants to volunteer for black hole tourism?

[Atom]

I suppose I should, I have no mate or offspring.

[Strong]

Who wants to volunteer for black hole tourism?

Well the World Cup is in South Africa next year, and where there are football supporters there are usually ladies of the night.

[Atom]

Just make sure I have plenty of weed for the trip, that is all I ask.