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Muddy
06-01-2010, 01:11 AM
rXfnjkxBTrk

Ferre
06-01-2010, 09:45 AM
Shows the insanity virus is spreading fast in the USA, and apparently it spreads through watching faux news. :sqlaugh:

Atom
06-01-2010, 10:01 AM
I get a kick out of that youtube error window which says if I can't see it then youtube is down or I don't have Flash installed, neither of which have ever been true. lol!

I'll have to watch the vid some other time when my connection is better.

Strong
06-01-2010, 12:41 PM
Why allow anyone into America at all. Just close your borders and only allow people out. Build a really big wall around your country and surround the wall with your vast military and be safe from the big bad world.

I guess that is the only real way to protect yourselves. Sad but true.

Wasn't there a children's story like that, about a giant that walled himself away and had no contact with the world. I wonder what it was called?

Atom
06-01-2010, 01:30 PM
I think that all people wanting to fly should be electronically searched, apparently we don't have the technology for that yet. It won't be long I suspect.

Atom
06-01-2010, 02:09 PM
You know what I mean though? Scanned in a fraction of a second, no visual necessary.

Atom
06-01-2010, 02:32 PM
Different types of scanners may be set up along walls of a specific boarding corridor or something. I don't really understand why visual x-ray is needed at all except that we simply don't have the technology to deal with this issue adequately yet.

Ferre
06-01-2010, 04:22 PM
Read this, apparently there are governments planting explosives in innocent people's luggage just to test the security on airfields;

BBC News - Slovaks plant explosives on air traveller (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8441891.stm)

:sqerr:

vectro
07-01-2010, 02:04 AM
Shows the insanity virus is spreading fast in the USA, and apparently it spreads through watching faux news. :sqlaugh:

Clusterfox. Fox Noise. Fixed News. Whatever you want to call it. People like this guy seem to end up there.

Zap
07-01-2010, 07:21 AM
People get hurt, some even die before their time.
It's a fact of life.
And giving up freedoms isn't going to change that fact.
So why do we?

vectro
07-01-2010, 01:03 PM
People get hurt, some even die before their time.
It's a fact of life.
And giving up freedoms isn't going to change that fact.
So why do we?

For a false sense of security from the Government so they seem like they're doing something. Also something for the media to talk about and make money from.

Brian
07-01-2010, 02:01 PM
Guess who else wants to profile? Our good ol' friend Sarah Palin.

On Fox News:

TkrUQ6q1kZk

Also, an excerpt from an interview she did with the Weekly Standard:


Palin blamed a culture of political correctness and other decisions that "prevented -- I'm going to say it -- profiling" of someone with Hasan's extremist ideology. "I say, profile away," Palin said. Such political correctness, she continued, "could be our downfall."






UGH

Atom
07-01-2010, 02:25 PM
Read this, apparently there are governments planting explosives in innocent people's luggage just to test the security on airfields;

BBC News - Slovaks plant explosives on air traveller (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8441891.stm)

:sqerr:This seems rather peculiar to me, like there are some details missing.

Muddy
07-01-2010, 10:01 PM
Full-Body Scanners 101: How Naked Is Full-Body Scan Naked? || Jaunted (http://www.jaunted.com/story/2010/1/6/165831/7563/travel/Full-Body+Scanners+101%3A+How+Naked+Is+Full-Body+Scan+Naked%3F)

Muddy
07-01-2010, 10:05 PM
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/TSA-Security-Agent-Arrested-at-LAX-80858482.html

Atom
08-01-2010, 09:12 AM
Full-Body Scanners 101: How Naked Is Full-Body Scan Naked? || Jaunted (http://www.jaunted.com/story/2010/1/6/165831/7563/travel/Full-Body+Scanners+101%3A+How+Naked+Is+Full-Body+Scan+Naked%3F)The chick in the first pic isn't too bad, and I probably could get used to the square tits.
lol

Halo
08-01-2010, 09:08 PM
I don't really understand why visual x-ray is needed at all except that we simply don't have the technology to deal with this issue adequately yet.

I can't understand why we don't have the technology to train a customs official that if a water bottle which seems to be carrying a watery substance that looks like water, smells like water and the passenger takes a drink of the watery substance right in front of said customs official, it's probably water. :sqfrown:

Wonder what they do with all the bottles of potentially explosive watery substances? Do you think they take them away and test them all? (or answer B: Landfill?)

Atom
08-01-2010, 09:23 PM
I can't understand why we don't have the technology to train a customs official that if a water bottle which seems to be carrying a watery substance that looks like water, smells like water and the passenger takes a drink of the watery substance right in front of said customs official, it's probably water. :sqfrown:

Wonder what they do with all the bottles of potentially explosive watery substances? Do you think they take them away and test them all? (or answer B: Landfill?)I suppose we must first create a list of the materials the scanners should be designed to detect.

Halo
08-01-2010, 10:53 PM
I suppose we must first create a list of the materials the scanners should be designed to detect.

Intelligence would be a start but I suppose that is immaterial. :3rolleyes::sqrolleyes:

Atom
09-01-2010, 10:49 AM
Intelligence would be a start but I suppose that is immaterial. :3rolleyes::sqrolleyes:Do you think that passengers should be scanned at airports?

Ferre
09-01-2010, 12:30 PM
Let me tell you guys something about that whole Christmas airplane incident that I find not only dodgy but smells very fishy to me. As you know I'm familiar with chemistry and when I heard what the actual substance was that was used for this so called "bombing" I knew instantly that it could have never been the purpose to "blow up" that plane.

The substance used is called Pentaerythritol tetranitrate, also known as PETN, this is one of the ingredients for SEMTEX, which indeed is an explosive by itself, but PETN is not, this stuff can only cause an actual explosion when it is en-capsuled with metal or another hard/dense material, without this kind of capsule all you can get is a blowtorch, not an explosion.

Anyone with a little knowledge of that stuff knows this and I do not believe that anyone who can get their hands on it would not know this, specially not people who also know what chemical to add to it to make it ignite.

Leaves me with a few simple questions;

- Why would "terrorists" send someone on a plane with a substance they know will only cause a little bit of fire damage but will definitely not take a plane down.

- Why didn't they stuff the guy with the same amount of SEMTEX, just as easy to hide and this does cause an explosion guaranteed to cause a lot more damage. (Any chemist who can get PETN can easily use that to create a real explosive)

- QUI BONO?

After that incident those Israeli companies that make airport scanners found themselves in a very nice position, as well as all other parties that benefit from the "war on terror" (politicians being one of those parties).

So I call shenanigans.

vectro
09-01-2010, 12:36 PM
So I call shenanigans.

I second your declaration of shenanigans.

Brian
09-01-2010, 01:11 PM
Anyone have any idea what liquid was in the syringe the bomber was trying to inject into the PETN in his tighty-whities?

Halo
09-01-2010, 01:14 PM
Do you think that passengers should be scanned at airports?
Maybe just their heads to see if there's anything in there.
http://btwimho.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=781&stc=1&d=1263063375




The substance used is called Pentaerythritol tetranitrate, also known as PETN, this is one of the ingredients for SEMTEX, which indeed is an explosive by itself, but PETN is not, this stuff can only cause an actual explosion when it is en-capsuled with metal or another hard/dense material, without this kind of capsule all you can get is a blowtorch, not an explosion.

Not sure I'm entirely comfortable with the idea of sitting beside a passenger with a blowtorch. :3confused:
Although I can imagine an air hostess saying "Food not warm enough Sir? Here take this blowtorch to warm it up," just like they take sharp implements off you at security then often GIVE YOU metal knives and forks to eat with.




- Why would "terrorists" send someone on a plane with a substance they know will only cause a little bit of fire damage but will definitely not take a plane down.

Playing devils advocate here, but possibly just crap incompetent terrorists?
(Like the attack on Glasgow airport June 2007 who couldn't get a jeep through the door. You'd think they'd have measured the doors first?)
BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Blazing car crashes into airport (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6257194.stm)




- QUI BONO?
.
This guy? :p
http://btwimho.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=782&stc=1&d=1263063375

Atom
09-01-2010, 01:26 PM
Maybe just their heads to see if there's anything in there.
(...)No? Ok.

Have you ever flown on an airplane? I'm just curious.

Atom
09-01-2010, 01:40 PM
Can you imagine??? (...)Can I imagine what?

Atom
09-01-2010, 01:49 PM
Anyone have any idea what liquid was in the syringe the bomber was trying to inject into the PETN in his tighty-whities?He had a syringe? I didn't know that.

Atom
09-01-2010, 01:54 PM
Or maybe I did but it didn't register well. I can't even remember where I read the story or I'd go back and read it again.

Brian
09-01-2010, 01:58 PM
I only heard about the syringe today after reading this NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/28/us/28explosives.html?_r=1&ref=us) (from Dec 27).

Excerpt:


But one characteristic of PETN is that it does not easily detonate, and that apparently thwarted Mr. Abdulmutallab, officials said. Dropping it or setting it on fire will not typically detonate it, explosive experts said.

Usually, a shock wave from a blasting cap or an exploding wire detonator is needed to set off PETN. Mr. Abdulmutallab was reported to have used a syringe to try to inject a liquid into the explosive.

“It sounds like he was trying to cause a chemical reaction that would initiate it, and that didn’t work out so well,” said Jimmie C. Oxley, an explosives expert and professor of chemistry at the University of Rhode Island.

Some passengers aboard Flight 253 said they heard popping noises similar to firecrackers, smelled a burning odor and observed Mr. Abdulmutallab’s pants leg and a wall of the airplane on fire. Passengers and crew members subdued Mr. Abdulmutallab and used blankets and fire extinguishers to put out the flames, according to the criminal complaint.

“A passenger stated that he observed Abdulmutallab holding what appeared to be a partially melted syringe, which was smoking,” the complaint said. “The passenger took the syringe from Abdulmutallab, shook it to stop it from smoking and threw it to the floor of the aircraft.”

F.B.I. agents recovered what appeared to be the remnants of a syringe from near Mr. Abdulmutallab’s seat, officials said, but the agency has not said what it suspects was in the syringe.

Dr. Oxley said it was conceivable that the contents of the syringe were sufficient to set off the PETN. “I’ve been thinking about it,” she said. “I know what I would do now, but I’m not going to tell you.”

Atom
09-01-2010, 02:20 PM
I only heard about the syringe today after reading this NY Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/28/us/28explosives.html?_r=1&ref=us) (from Dec 27).

Excerpt: (...)That's interesting. Thanks, Brian. My mind keeps trying to revert back to the question of whether all airline passengers should be scanned if we had non-invasive methods. But then I think of how that would probably spill over into the auto traffic crowd etc.. get stopped for a traffic violation and get a quick scan for example, so, this is a question I myself am having difficulty with.

Halo
09-01-2010, 02:39 PM
No? Ok.

Have you ever flown on an airplane? I'm just curious.

I have indeed. The first time was was going on a school trip. I was sitting in the very back row where there were 2 seats instead of 1. When it seemed we were ready, the air hostess slid a seat from behind mine and strapped herself in, for what seemed an inordinately long time. She had more buckles than the rest of us. I looked down at the one buckle across my waist and then to the (what seemed like a) multitude of straps across her bosom, and I thought...
what the hell does she know that I don't? :sqerr:

Then the captain's voice was heard over the tannoy:
Will the air cabin crew member at the back please shut the door.
:sqeek:


Can't find the vid I wanted of comedian talking about John Smeaton attacking the terrorists so the first bit of this will have to suffice:
x1j31AnF1zs

Atom
09-01-2010, 02:57 PM
It's quite an experience, although I wouldn't want to live there. I don't know how stewardess's and pilots do it.

Ferre
09-01-2010, 04:12 PM
Anyone have any idea what liquid was in the syringe the bomber was trying to inject into the PETN in his tighty-whities?

I have an idea, but of course it's just an idea as there have been no news on that substance, I can only tell you what I would use and that would be a mixture of acetone with acetone peroxide and a little bit of nitrocellulose, although somehow I doubt that this was used because one would need a glass syringe to contain it and this mixture would be rather unstable and explosive by itself, specially with temperatures above 10 Celsius.

Having said that, this whole story sounds even more fishy to me knowing that whoever made the substance in the syringe must have had the knowledge and access to chemicals to make his own batch of SEMTEX (I could do that in my own kitchen easily), and this would be much easier to detonate, instead of a syringe with a chemical an ordinary (slightly modified) cell phone could have done the job.

In this case I find it not plausible that incompetence played a role, whoever the chemist was that came up with that PETN + Syringe to "detonate" MUST have known that there would be no "detonation" at all, at best a huge flame.

Only a chemist could come up with combinations like that, and chemists know exactly what the stuff is about and what it can do, and most of all, what it can not do. And without a metal casing (which would be detected at any airport) this stuff can not "explode", this is simply technically impossible.

This kid was set up to cause a media hype, not to bring an airplane down. That I am 100% sure off.

So my question remains; Qui bono?

Looking at history I do have a good idea on that, it is not a coincidence that both Israeli companies and the Israeli government are the ones that profit the most from this incident, knowing that Mossad already has build up a reputation for false flag operations like that I frankly have no other suspects, simply because no one else has anything to gain from such action, and Israel a whole lot, both financially and politically.

Damo
10-01-2010, 12:10 AM
Shows the insanity virus is spreading fast in the USA, and apparently it spreads through watching faux news. :sqlaugh:

yep.....

There's ever-growing numbers of spy bases in Australia, spreading paranoia.

Ferre
10-01-2010, 07:23 AM
This is an interesting, and important article to read when you are curious as for where exactly we get all that "knowledge" of "terrorism" from;

IS ISRAEL CONTROLLING PHONY TERROR NEWS? : Veterans Today (http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=9962&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)


Who says Al Qaeda takes credit for a bombing? Rita Katz. Who gets us bin Laden tapes? Rita Katz. Who gets us prettymuch all information telling us Muslims are bad? Rita Katz? Rita Katz is the Director of Site Intelligence, primary source for intelligence used by news services, Homeland Security, the FBI and CIA. What is her qualification? She served in the Israeli Defense Force. She has a college degree and most investigative journalists believe the Mossad "helps" her with her information. We find no evidence of any qualification whatsoever of any kind. A bartender has more intelligence gathering experience.

Nobody verifies her claims. SITE says Al Qaeda did it, it hits the papers. SITE says Israel didn't do it, that hits the papers too. What does SITE really do? They check the internet for "information," almost invariably information that Israel wants reported and it is sold as news, seen on American TV, reported in our papers and passed around the internet almost as though it were actually true. Amazing.

Do we know if the information reported comes from a teenager in Seattle or a terror cell in Jakarta? No, of course not, we don't have a clue. Can you imagine buying information on Islamic terrorism from an Israeli whose father was executed as a spy by Arabs?

It is quite likely that everything you think you know about terror attacks such as the one in Detroit or whether Osama bin Laden is alive or dead comes from Rita Katz. Does she make it all up? We don't know, nobody knows, nobody checks, they simply buy it, print it, say it comes from Site Intelligence and simply forget to tell us that this is, not only a highly biased organization but also an extremely amateur one also.

I strongly suggest to read the entire article, it shows how we are getting duped all the time into believing hogwash.

Doc
10-01-2010, 10:41 AM
So my question remains; Qui bono?

Looking at history I do have a good idea on that, it is not a coincidence that both Israeli companies and the Israeli government are the ones that profit the most from this incident, knowing that Mossad already has build up a reputation for false flag operations like that I frankly have no other suspects, simply because no one else has anything to gain from such action, and Israel a whole lot, both financially and politically.

Not an implausible theory, by any means, but I think it's easily as plausible to take into consideration the motivations behind organized terrorist activities... to spread terror, confusion and insecurity.

Toward that end, a failed attempt has nearly the same effect as a successful one.

Hmmmm... terror, confusion and insecurity.....

OMG! Congress is a terrorist organization!:sqcool:

Ferre
10-01-2010, 11:28 AM
OMG! Congress is a terrorist organization!:sqcool:

Well, from where I'm looking at it they sure do their best to facilitate terrorism by handing whoever IS responsible the consequences to society.

Back in the days we had terrorism here in Europe, the IRA in England, the Molukkans in the Netherlands, etc, terrorism did not succeed in their goals because governments did not give in to them by restricting the rights of the people, after a bombing in London the next day life went on as if it never happened, thus showing those terrorists their actions had little real effect on the lives of the people.

The American government has changed that, nowadays they are the ones amplifying the fear and restricting people's lives and thus handing those terrorists help they could never have imagined in the old days.

There is a reason for that, the reasons you find when you follow the money.

If they would really want to end terrorism, they should ask themselves one question: WHY are those so called terrorists pissed off? Next thing they should do is stop doing what pisses those terrorists off.

Why are so many people in the world pissed off at America? The answer is simple; because America steals resources, supports dictators and kills people in unjust wars all over the world. Of course this sort of behaviour makes enemies, and of course some of those enemies will resort to desperate actions. Those actions have another message than the American government wants us to believe, the message is not that they want to "destroy the west" as they falsely want people to believe, the message is; This has to stop or you get hurt too.

Ferre
10-01-2010, 06:12 PM
Apparently I'm not the only one coming to the same conclusion;

Scanning the Abdulmutallab story for more lies (http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_5441.shtml)


Returning to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab’s attempt to blow up a Northwest airliner on Christmas day, let’s scan the body of evidence for government lies, the real explosive elements. Let’s give Umar a good dose of radiation with the knowledge that first reveals the 80 grams of PETN explosive he carried in his crotch lacked a blasting cap to blow him and the plane away. Instead, lighting with an injection of liquid did nothing but set him on fire. As if no one in the military or intelligence knew that.

After reading my article Scripting the ‘fear of flying,’ my friend John McCarthy, retired Marine captain from the Vietnam War clued me via email: “Jerry, the false flaggers forgot that a blasting cap is required to detonate PETN and other plastic explosives. Sure, it will burn and we used it in winter to heat our cans of food, but a blasting cap is missing from the mix. So, the PTB’s [Powers That Be] wanted to raise the fear factor, which this incident did, without loss of life and a $75 million dollar airplane . . . now the Israeli firms that make the full body scanners will reap millions!”

Also, another former Marine combat captain, Gordon Duff, wrote in Veterans Today, Evidence Mounts for US Complicity in Terrorism, “We do know a couple of things. [Farouk Abdal’s’] Dad [Alhaji Umaru Abdulmutallab], back in Nigeria, ran the national arms industry (DICON) in partnership with Israel, in particular, the Mossad. He was in daily contact with them. They run everything in Nigeria, from arms production to counter-terrorism. Though Islamic, Abdulmutallab was a close associate of Israel. He has been misrepresented. His ‘banking’ is a cover. Next, what do we know about the two Al Qaeda leaders Bush had released, the ones who planned this?

“According to ABC news, the Al Qaeda leaders running the insurgency in Yemen were released from Guantanamo, although two of the highest ranking known terrorists there, without trial.

“Guantanamo prisoner #333, Muhamad Attik al-Harbi, and prisoner #372, Said Ali Shari, were sent to Saudi Arabia on Nov. 9, 2007, according to the Defense Department log of detainees who were released from American custody.

“Both of the former Guantanamo detainees are described as military commanders and appear on a January 2009 video, along with the man described as the top leader of al Qaeda in Yemen, Abu Basir Naser al-Wahishi, formerly Osama bin Laden’s personal secretary.

“With all the hoopla about trials in New York, not a word is said when top level terrorists are released to Saudi friends of the Bush family who let them go. We are now fighting these two Bush friends in Yemen. They are running a major insurgency there. We have been using Cruise missiles and our jets to attack their bases in the last weeks.”

Please, read the whole article for a full frontal scan that includes the CIA admitting that in its November 29, 2009, interview with Papa Abdulmutallab, they were told that his son had ties to extremists in Yemen, a hotbed of al Qaeda activity. The information was not acted on responsibly [and “the terrorist” son, Umar Farouk], they were warned about in November was the same one they had been tracking since August . . .”

Why do they call it an Intelligence Agency?

Once again, the Agency was caught with its pants down, scanned being involved with Israel and Yemen, and the fact that the ‘terrorists’ released by Bush [were] really Israeli agents who have organized attacks against US targets.

Muddy
10-01-2010, 07:22 PM
Can I imagine what?

Can you imagine if they actually started profiling people like that?

Atom
10-01-2010, 09:02 PM
Can you imagine if they actually started profiling people like that?Oh, yeah. I wouldn't give a flying fuck if they did, personally.

Atom
10-01-2010, 09:14 PM
I was willing to pretend, though, enough to at least have a somewhat meaningful conversation on the matter, but I see that no one wants to play. Fuck it then.

Atom
10-01-2010, 09:17 PM
Might as well go ahead and post some goddamn pics and vids.

Brian
11-01-2010, 12:10 AM
Oh, yeah. I wouldn't give a flying fuck if they did, personally.

It wouldn't make much sense considering that a person of any race or religion can be a terrorist (Tim McVeigh comes to mind, but someone much more related to this would be Adam Gadahn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Yahiye_Gadahn)). While the TSA would be busy checking every Muslim walking through the gates, the next white American Al-Qaeda recruit would walk right through - which is actually something Al-Qaeda is said to be striving for (a white American).

And he/she would then blow up the plane. Woops.

Profiling on race and religion leads to more problems, it doesn't solve any.

julien_simon
11-01-2010, 01:15 AM
It wouldn't make much sense considering that a person of any race or religion can be a terrorist (Tim McVeigh comes to mind, but someone much more related to this would be Adam Gadahn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Yahiye_Gadahn)). While the TSA would be busy checking every Muslim walking through the gates, the next white American Al-Qaeda recruit would walk right through - which is actually something Al-Qaeda is said to be striving for (a white American).

And he/she would then blow up the plane. Woops.

Profiling on race and religion leads to more problems, it doesn't solve any.

kinda like the X-ray thread. No one under 18 will get x-rayed.

Well, let's go recruit some 16 year old fanatic and brainwash them while they are young.

Atom
11-01-2010, 10:27 AM
It wouldn't make much sense considering that a person of any race or religion can be a terrorist (Tim McVeigh comes to mind, but someone much more related to this would be Adam Gadahn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Yahiye_Gadahn)). While the TSA would be busy checking every Muslim walking through the gates, the next white American Al-Qaeda recruit would walk right through - which is actually something Al-Qaeda is said to be striving for (a white American).

And he/she would then blow up the plane. Woops.

Profiling on race and religion leads to more problems, it doesn't solve any.What in the name of Carl Sagan are you talking about? What wouldn't make sense? And who the hell is talking about profiling??

Have you people lost your goddamn minds?

Brian, take a look at the quote you chose to respond to, then look at your response. Makes no sense, buddy.

Atom
11-01-2010, 10:58 AM
There should be machines that scan ALL passengers and crew, #1, and #2, scans should be noninvasive, that means we'll need to come up with methods other than visual x-ray, and we actually may already have the technology, I don't know.

Atom
11-01-2010, 11:02 AM
Forget the profiling crap, scan everyone, period. And I see no reason why it can't be done in a few seconds. Light travels at the speed of light, that's pretty fast.

Muddy
11-01-2010, 11:07 AM
Atom, that's the whole point. It's not the scanning that is necessarily objectionable, it's the profiling. That's what Brian was referring to. Based on post 47, it looks like you agree.

Atom
11-01-2010, 11:31 AM
Atom, that's the whole point. It's not the scanning that is necessarily objectionable, it's the profiling. That's what Brian was referring to. Based on post 47, it looks like you agree.
But if you fix the scanning problem, profiling will not exist. Profiling does not exist on the USS Enterprise.

I know it's not right to think that technology can fix everything, but in this case I think it could.

Atom
11-01-2010, 11:34 AM
It shouldn't matter what color or religion or nationality you are, or your purpose for traveling for that matter, if you get through the scanners then you should be able to board.

Atom
11-01-2010, 11:38 AM
I honestly would dread having to compile a list of materials that the scanners should be designed to scan for though, that to me sounds a very daunting task.

Doc
11-01-2010, 11:51 AM
I'm inclined to agree, that scanning should be performed on anyone and anything, prior to boarding the aircraft. I seem to recall reading not too long ago that they were referring to "enhanced screening" only 10-15% of the passengers and about 10% of the baggage. To me, that is unacceptable security. In TelAviv, EVERYTHING is scanned, or it doesn't get aboard. No profiling, no human element, EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY.

I can imagine that it might slow down the boarding process, to have to scan 8 or 10 times more, but with the new technology, it should be doable. It will be inconvenient, yes, but so is falling to earth in a fireball.

Atom
11-01-2010, 12:03 PM
Now on the other hand the whole rights and freedom thing haunts me, like why wouldn't the technology spill over into the streets, used at traffic stops by police etc? This is really a hard issue for me.

Ferre
11-01-2010, 12:04 PM
It's all plain stupid. as soon as airplane passengers are all scanned the "terristss" will go for trains, and then all train passengers get scanned and the terristss will go for the shopping malls and when all shopping mall customers are being scanned they'll go for other places.

And with all those costly measurements that take away all our freedoms none of those stupid politicians comes up with the idea that it is far cheaper and better for everyone if they would just quit pissing people off all over the world and make friends instead of enemies for a change.

Take Iraq for example, how much has it cost already to turn that country into a pile of rubbish? And how much would it cost to finance projects to make everyone a happy camper over there? I bet that with only a fraction of the money spend on destruction and murdering people they could have bribed every single Iraqi civilian into the most peaceful person on earth.

With only a fraction of the money spend on demolishing their land, infrastructure and every other aspect of their society as it has been done they could have bought every single Iraqi person whatever they dreamt of and still have money left to pay for American's healthcare.

Man, what we need is a complete change of thinking about ending conflicts, with love instead of wars, with giving people presents instead of bombs. Cheaper and more efficient.

..but that's just me, I'm too rational for politicians, they don't understand anything other than force to submit people into whatever they want from them.

Brian
11-01-2010, 12:25 PM
Oh, yeah. I wouldn't give a flying fuck if they did, personally.


What in the name of Carl Sagan are you talking about? What wouldn't make sense? And who the hell is talking about profiling??

Have you people lost your goddamn minds?

Brian, take a look at the quote you chose to respond to, then look at your response. Makes no sense, buddy.

It makes absolute sense. Muddy said "Can you imagine if they started profiling?" and you replied that you wouldn't "give a flying fuck if they did."

It's your words, not mine. If you didn't mean it, don't type it. Don't accuse me of misrepresenting you when your words are more than clear. If it's not what you meant then correct what you said.

Atom
11-01-2010, 12:38 PM
It makes absolute sense. Muddy said "Can you imagine if they started profiling?" and you replied that you wouldn't "give a flying fuck if they did."

It's your words, not mine. If you didn't mean it, don't type it. Don't accuse me of misrepresenting you when your words are more than clear. If it's not what you meant then correct what you said.Oh, yeah you're right, sorry. I didn't really mean that I didn't give a fuck about profiling and shouldn't have typed it, I was just upset with Muddy for something he said in a different thread and was actually not giving a fuck about something unrelated to the quote. Goddamn cabin fever I think.

Brian
11-01-2010, 12:39 PM
It's all plain stupid. as soon as airplane passengers are all scanned the "terristss" will go for trains, and then all train passengers get scanned and the terristss will go for the shopping malls and when all shopping mall customers are being scanned they'll go for other places.

And with all those costly measurements that take away all our freedoms none of those stupid politicians comes up with the idea that it is far cheaper and better for everyone if they would just quit pissing people off all over the world and make friends instead of enemies for a change.

Take Iraq for example, how much has it cost already to turn that country into a pile of rubbish? And how much would it cost to finance projects to make everyone a happy camper over there? I bet that with only a fraction of the money spend on destruction and murdering people they could have bribed every single Iraqi civilian into the most peaceful person on earth.

With only a fraction of the money spend on demolishing their land, infrastructure and every other aspect of their society as it has been done they could have bought every single Iraqi person whatever they dreamt of and still have money left to pay for American's healthcare.

Man, what we need is a complete change of thinking about ending conflicts, with love instead of wars, with giving people presents instead of bombs. Cheaper and more efficient.

..but that's just me, I'm too rational for politicians, they don't understand anything other than force to submit people into whatever they want from them.

It'd be nice if this would happen, but then all the corporations making millions, billions, trillions off of fear-mongering and war would show how powerful they are and they would continue to buy off our Governments. We've seen that in action this year as the Health Insurance lobby has spent billions in buying anti-health care votes. It's a shame and gets so many of us so f'n angry. :\

Brian
11-01-2010, 12:40 PM
Oh, yeah you're right, sorry. I didn't really mean that I didn't give a fuck about profiling and shouldn't have typed it, I was just upset with Muddy for something he said in a different thread and was actually not giving a fuck about something unrelated to the quote. Goddamn cabin fever I think.
Let's go grab a beer :sqcool:

Atom
11-01-2010, 12:51 PM
Let's go grab a beer :sqcool:Ok, I'll need to substitute a Mountain Dew though I'm afraid, or go to the store for grape juice and see you in about a week. lol

Doc
11-01-2010, 03:01 PM
It's all plain stupid. as soon as airplane passengers are all scanned the "terristss" will go for trains, and then all train passengers get scanned and the terristss will go for the shopping malls and when all shopping mall customers are being scanned they'll go for other places.

And with all those costly measurements that take away all our freedoms none of those stupid politicians comes up with the idea that it is far cheaper and better for everyone if they would just quit pissing people off all over the world and make friends instead of enemies for a change.

Take Iraq for example, how much has it cost already to turn that country into a pile of rubbish? And how much would it cost to finance projects to make everyone a happy camper over there? I bet that with only a fraction of the money spend on destruction and murdering people they could have bribed every single Iraqi civilian into the most peaceful person on earth.

With only a fraction of the money spend on demolishing their land, infrastructure and every other aspect of their society as it has been done they could have bought every single Iraqi person whatever they dreamt of and still have money left to pay for American's healthcare.

Man, what we need is a complete change of thinking about ending conflicts, with love instead of wars, with giving people presents instead of bombs. Cheaper and more efficient.

..but that's just me, I'm too rational for politicians, they don't understand anything other than force to submit people into whatever they want from them.

The problem is, Ferre, human nature being what it is, if you try to buy goodwill, you're just setting a pattern of behavior. Soon, they'll want more, and when you can (or will) no longer provide it, you'll have an ever bigger enemy than you started out with.

Why do you think they have signs in the parks, "Do not feed the bears"?
No bear is likely to harm someone that is giving it a tasty treat.

It's when you run OUT of treats, that they get pissed!

Halo
11-01-2010, 10:32 PM
It's when you run OUT of treats, that they get pissed!
It's when you run out of treats that YOU turn into a tasty treat. :3shocked:

Maybe Ferre's choice of the word "bribe" wasn't the best one, but the sentiment is a positive message. I agree that trillions were wasted when that money could have been spent in a better and less wasteful manner.

Doc
12-01-2010, 12:11 AM
It's when you run out of treats that YOU turn into a tasty treat. :3shocked:

Maybe Ferre's choice of the word "bribe" wasn't the best one, but the sentiment is a positive message. I agree that trillions were wasted when that money could have been spent in a better and less wasteful manner.

I can agree with that. The only part that I disagree with is an attitude of appeasement as the only resort.

As Tom Cruise's buddy said in Risky Business, "Sometimes you just have to say, 'What the fuck!'"

Ferre
12-01-2010, 06:27 AM
The problem is, Ferre, human nature being what it is, if you try to buy goodwill, you're just setting a pattern of behavior. Soon, they'll want more, and when you can (or will) no longer provide it, you'll have an ever bigger enemy than you started out with.

Why do you think they have signs in the parks, "Do not feed the bears"?
No bear is likely to harm someone that is giving it a tasty treat.

It's when you run OUT of treats, that they get pissed!

Same goes for oppression. Ease up oppressing a nation and they will revolt. Bears get aggressive when they are HUNGRY btw, not because of not getting treats.

The question is what's a cheaper solution, Down here in Europe this is not a question any more since ww2, we have a social democracy where people indeed get what they need, and that is not material stuff, these are plain simple things like good education, healthcare, the possibility to personal development and creativity, not SUV's, wide screen tv and all the other material shit some people (specially in the USA) believe is needed for a happy life.

And then there's something about this "human nature" which is largely misunderstood by most people. They are lead to believe since decades that it is "human nature" to be aggressive, this is not true, it is human nature to prevent conflicts, however, it is the nature of sociopaths to profit from and start conflicts and those sociopaths are sadly enough on the top of our political chain, it are those same sociopaths that made the sheeple believe it is human nature to start conflicts by telling them that's the case every time as kind of an excuse for their wars.

I recommend you to read Michael Parenti's work, he is an investigative historian and has examined exactly that issue.

Watch this, somewhere in that video this "human nature" is explained;

-5036518851434858037

Ferre
12-01-2010, 06:28 AM
I can agree with that. The only part that I disagree with is an attitude of appeasement as the only resort.

As Tom Cruise's buddy said in Risky Business, "Sometimes you just have to say, 'What the fuck!'"

The word "bribe" indeed was a bad (and wrong) choice of word, what I meant was not bribe, not "appeasement" but plain simple practical help to get a better quality of life, people will always be thankful to whatever gave them a better quality of life. Example; just listen how the "founding fathers" are talked about.

Ferre
18-01-2010, 08:58 AM
yZfbTlYpKYo

Doc
19-01-2010, 09:24 PM
It may not be long 'fore it comes to that. :sqembarrassed: