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Muddy
12-01-2010, 01:18 PM
Sorry dude, I did notice, but I was busy watching Alastair Campbell at the Chilcot Inquiry (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8453116.stm), (Iraq war). That was where the real humour was today.

Why does Tony Blair have spokesman talk for him in these meetings?

Strong
12-01-2010, 01:26 PM
Why does Tony Blair have spokesman talk for him in these meetings?

He was Blair's press secretary and strategist and very much involved in what went on. He also helped create a number of documents, one of which made the 45 minute claim. Thus he was called by the inquiry. Blair is due to appear in a couple of weeks.

Ferre
12-01-2010, 01:34 PM
He was Blair's press secretary and strategist and very much involved in what went on. He also helped create a number of documents, one of which made the 45 minute claim. Thus he was called by the inquiry. Blair is due to appear in a couple of weeks.

We have the same thing going on right now, today the report came out from the commission that investigated the support for the Iraq war, they concluded that this war was illegal and that the government was "mis-informed" by two ministers in charge at that time.

I've been watching the live debates all day long, lots of damage control going on, could have been laughable if it was not as devastating for the Iraqi people.

Zap
12-01-2010, 03:29 PM
He was Blair's press secretary and strategist and very much involved in what went on. He also helped create a number of documents, one of which made the 45 minute claim. Thus he was called by the inquiry. Blair is due to appear in a couple of weeks.

I guess he's going to be changing his name to "Patsy" pretty soon.
I doubt Blair's going to take the hit for this.

Strong
12-01-2010, 05:36 PM
I guess he's going to be changing his name to "Patsy" pretty soon.
I doubt Blair's going to take the hit for this.

He was totally unrepentant. Held his head up high and made no apologies.

In actual fact there was nothing new revealed today, apart that Campbell was under the impression that Blair used to send notes to Bush on a regular basis. One of those he seemed to think told Bush that if diplomatic efforts failed, Blair would back the Americans invading Iraq.

Strong
12-01-2010, 05:42 PM
We have the same thing going on right now, today the report came out from the commission that investigated the support for the Iraq war, they concluded that this war was illegal and that the government was "mis-informed" by two ministers in charge at that time.

I've been watching the live debates all day long, lots of damage control going on, could have been laughable if it was not as devastating for the Iraqi people.

Yes I heard about that today as well. Apparently Blair sent the British Ambassador to see your Prime Minister(?) with a letter. The instruction was for him to read it and give it back immediately. No one knows what was in the letter, but it persuaded your government to back the invasion?

Can you confirm any of this? I believe someone was questioned about it in your commission. Your ex-Prime Minister perhaps?

Brian
12-01-2010, 07:24 PM
You guys want to bring some of that democracy over here to the U.S.? We could use it.

Doc
12-01-2010, 07:31 PM
You guys want to bring some of that democracy over here to the U.S.? We could use it.

We HAD it, Brian.

We didn't know what to do with it, and now we're losing it.:sqmad:

Zap
12-01-2010, 09:10 PM
We HAD it, Brian.

We didn't know what to do with it, and now we're losing it.:sqmad:

Call me an optimist, but I don't think it's too late to reclaim it.
Won't be easy, though.

Brian
12-01-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm ready for the fight to reclaim it. And it's definitely going to be a fight.

julien_simon
12-01-2010, 10:32 PM
a fight between lost and obama? :D

vectro
13-01-2010, 12:39 AM
Sorry dude, I did notice, but I was busy watching Alastair Campbell at the Chilcot Inquiry (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8453116.stm), (Iraq war). That was where the real humour was today.


We have the same thing going on right now, today the report came out from the commission that investigated the support for the Iraq war, they concluded that this war was illegal and that the government was "mis-informed" by two ministers in charge at that time.

I've been watching the live debates all day long, lots of damage control going on, could have been laughable if it was not as devastating for the Iraqi people.

That's another problem with American media. I watch it all the time but am just learning now from you two about the inquiries and debates in other countries about their involvement with the Iraq war.

Doc
13-01-2010, 01:20 AM
Call me an optimist, but I don't think it's too late to reclaim it.
Won't be easy, though.

I don't think it's too late either, Zap. But it's close. If people don't wake up and get their collective head out of their ass, they're liable to wake up one day and wonder what the hell happened.

vectro
13-01-2010, 01:47 AM
^ I haven't given up yet.

Ferre
13-01-2010, 03:43 AM
Yes I heard about that today as well. Apparently Blair sent the British Ambassador to see your Prime Minister(?) with a letter. The instruction was for him to read it and give it back immediately. No one knows what was in the letter, but it persuaded your government to back the invasion?

Can you confirm any of this? I believe someone was questioned about it in your commission. Your ex-Prime Minister perhaps?

We still have the same prime minister as we had then, this is the first thing I hear about this letter though, was this mentioned in the British trials? If so that's interesting news, because our (appointed by the same prime minister) commission did not mention a word about that incident or letter.

Strong
13-01-2010, 04:37 AM
I only half caught the news report on Channel 4 news last night, so I only got half the story. I was hoping you had heard more.

I was really hoping that your Prime Minister would reveal what was in the letter. That intrigues me, what could it have been that got the Netherlands's backing for the war?

It was news to us over here that Blair would act in that way. It is the first we have heard of it.

Strong
13-01-2010, 04:38 AM
That's another problem with American media. I watch it all the time but am just learning now from you two about the inquiries and debates in other countries about their involvement with the Iraq war.

That is why it is so important to keep an eye on the international media. Sometimes it is the only way to find out what your own government is up to :sqeek:

Zap
13-01-2010, 08:02 AM
That is why it is so important to keep an eye on the international media. Sometimes it is the only way to find out what your own government is up to :sqeek:

Ain't that the truth!

I remember my first trips to Moscow and watching the news there.
Some of the stuff they reported on would NEVER be mentioned here.

Ferre
13-01-2010, 08:45 AM
True that, I watch RT Latest News (http://rt.com/) regularly and they send out a lot of information we do not get in the MSM.

Zap
13-01-2010, 08:53 AM
True that, I watch RT Latest News (http://rt.com/) regularly and they send out a lot of information we do not get in the MSM.

Thanks Dude.
Sending that link to my wife as we speak...

Halo
13-01-2010, 11:30 AM
Besides, they are un-teachable so why bother, it's like trying to teach a fish to walk on land.
Give them time, they'll evolve. Even if they don't believe in it. :sqlaugh:




I was really hoping that your Prime Minister would reveal what was in the letter. That intrigues me, what could it have been that got the Netherlands's backing for the war?.
Probably something like: "I've got the photos, back us and they don't need to see the light of day."

Can't trust dem policitians.

Strong
13-01-2010, 12:24 PM
:sqlaugh:

Yes! Who knows what they really get up to at those inter-governmental conferences. Them and their group photos!

Strong
13-01-2010, 12:35 PM
I kind of hi-jacked Doc's thread about Dr. Laura (http://btwimho.com/showthread.php?t=1448) with my Chilcot Inquiry stuff, so I figured it appropriate to move the Chilcot related stuff to its own thread. I hope nobody minds.

Halo's post 21, quotes Ferre from the Dr. Laura thread, if anybody is confused. Sorry Halo, for messing your post up somewhat, feel free to repost that if you feel like it.

Halo
14-01-2010, 10:00 AM
Sorry Halo, for messing your post up somewhat, feel free to repost that if you feel like it.

I will decline your kind offer as the situation has made me a little confused; I will trust in (a) Strong(er) power safe in the knowledge that you know what's what. :3smile:

Ferre
14-01-2010, 10:26 AM
Man, I've been following the government debates on that report on the investigation of the Dutch government's decision to aid the US and UK with the invasion of Iraq live last night, it lasted till 3 am and I've seldom seen such a load of political rhetoric and spin in my life.

Where it came down to is that the prime minister who was also prime minister at that time seven years ago weaselled himself out of any direct responsibility for that decision, even though this report was very clear that it was an illegal invasion he still claimed that this was "just an opinion" and said stuff like; "If I had made the decision then with the knowledge I have today this would be a different situation", and refused to answer what kind of decision he would have taken if that was the case, he also ignored the fact that there was no mandate for that war then and still is not there today, so in reality he doesn't know anything more, or less today that he could have not known then.

What was noticeable though is that the only people and parties that supported and still support that war are frikkin Christians, what's with Christians that they love war so much that they defend it even if all morals and laws object it, I often wonder.

The only parties mentioning the humanitarian aspects and devastating effects of that war on the Iraqi people, again, where the secular parties, the Christians simply ignored questions about those aspects and used spin and political rhetoric to talk about something else instead.

:sqconfused:

Strong
14-01-2010, 01:04 PM
I dug out a link (http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/2010/01/12/the-dutch-iraq-inquiry-concludes-war-had-no-legal-basis/) for you Ferre, but there wasn't much detail.

It reports on the Dutch Iraq Inquiry's determination that the Iraq war had, 'no sound mandate under international law'. In the middle of the short piece it mentions the letter;


The inquiry has just revealed in a press conference that the UK Ambassador delivered to the Dutch Prime Minister a “for your eyes only” personal letter from Tony Blair which Jan Peter Balkenende read and then had to return to the UK Ambassador.

The inquiry didn’t get to see it. For the record, the Dutch didn’t put troops into the US/UK-led war on Iraq but it gave its support.

Ferre
14-01-2010, 01:37 PM
Thanks Strong, Coincidently (well, not that coincidently) I have downloaded the full report yesterday and have read about that letter in the report, I'm still not finished reading it btw, it has a few hundred pages.

Where it comes down to is that the commission found that the war was illegal, the government was badly informed by the minister of defence of the time (Who later became the chief of Nato) and that our prime minister had not shown any leadership in the process, the report also revealed that our own secret service had written a few reports on Saddam's alleged WMD's and that they had reservations and doubts on the reality of those WMD's. The minister of defence however did not inform the rest of the government about those reservations but only used those informations from the secret service reports which were useful to his goal of pushing our country into support for that war.

This whole Iraq deal has had a bad smell from the start, lies, lies lies and deceit, that's the common factor whether it involves America, Britain or Holland, everywhere this illegal war has been sold with lies and deceit.

:sqconfused:

Strong
18-01-2010, 09:34 AM
It has finally been announced when Tony Blair will appear before the Inquiry, 29th January. Of course there are a number of prominent people before then, Jack Straw, Geoff Hoon, and not least Lord Goldsmith who, as Attorney General, declared that it would not be illegal to invade Iraq.


In what promises to be the most explosive week of the inquiry so far, the former Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, will give evidence on January 27, when he will be asked what made him change his stance on the legality of the war.

In 2002 Lord Goldsmith had told Mr Blair military action would not be legally justified without a second UN resolution against Saddam Hussein, but by the time the conflict started in March 2003 he had declared it legal.

Mr Blair denied in a recent TV interview that he had "bullied" Lord Goldsmith into giving his blessing to the invasion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/7018563/Iraq-Inquiry-date-set-for-Tony-Blair-to-appear.html

Strong
29-01-2010, 08:51 AM
Busy watching Teflon Tony having a great day at the crease, batting away the questions. Lunch break.