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Ferre
18-08-2009, 04:31 PM
Is it me or is our society slowly turning fascist? I don't mean locally per se, but I do see global tendencies that point to more and more political power from corporations and politics that give corporate interests priority above the interests of individuals and more and more laws which inflict in personal fundamental rights usually regarding more monitoring and control of the population.

I know what I find to be examples that suggest that we are heading towards fascism, or corporatism, in Mussolini's own definition, but wonder if you see this too, you know, it could just be me going paranoid or something.

What do you think are examples that things are getting a tad worrying? What does modern day fascism looks like to you?

Zap
18-08-2009, 05:37 PM
I've noticed it too, especially South of the border.
And, now I hear that there's worry in the US about losing gun ownership.
The gun lovers are starting to get worried that Obama is going to take away their guns.
And they worry about what he has planned for after he has them all.

Atom
19-08-2009, 03:53 PM
I am certainly not one to attempt to define fascism. I suppose it's meaning changes with the times.

Atom
19-08-2009, 03:56 PM
Heck, I can't even decide if I should have used an apostrophe (above) or not.

ewomack
23-08-2009, 10:01 AM
The development this time is interesting because it almost seems as if we don't realize what we're doing. Totalitarianism can sneak up on even those who impose it. We're a horribly polarized country where the extreme voice usually gets the press. So unfortunately our reactionary tendencies lead us to do things and pass laws that cooler heads would never allow.

It's frightening, horrifying, and it makes me want to transform into a budgie and fly away.

Muddy
23-08-2009, 01:17 PM
I've noticed it too, especially South of the border.
And, now I hear that there's worry in the US about losing gun ownership.
The gun lovers are starting to get worried that Obama is going to take away their guns.
And they worry about what he has planned for after he has them all.

Did you see in the news, right before he became president (when he became president elect) all the gun shops in the country got sold out. Seriously.

Zap
23-08-2009, 01:19 PM
Did you see in the news, right before he became president (when he became president elect) all the gun shops in the country got sold out. Seriously.

Wow! No I missed that.
And I suspect South is right when he says at confiscation time, there's going to be a whole lot of gun owners who seem to have lost all of their guns recently.

Muddy
23-08-2009, 01:22 PM
Yeah, people are seriously concerned about it.

ewomack
23-08-2009, 08:35 PM
I don't see why. The gun lobby in this country is more powerful than either the President or Congress at this point.

Muddy
23-08-2009, 08:49 PM
True, but you know how them there gun toters are...

ewomack
26-08-2009, 12:06 AM
People who pack heat do tend to get what they want...

Atom
26-08-2009, 05:03 PM
Ferre, it's Anyone Notice The Fascism?, not "notices".

Muddy
26-08-2009, 05:07 PM
I just figured he meant to type a d and hit the s.

Ferre
26-08-2009, 05:11 PM
That's how a Dutch accent looks like in writing. :sqlaugh:

Atom
26-08-2009, 05:12 PM
I just figured he meant to type a d and hit the s.

That's a possibility I hadn't considered, however, I do not believe that is the case. I'm sorry.






lol

Muddy
26-08-2009, 05:14 PM
^ LOL

Ferre
26-08-2009, 05:16 PM
So I make the occasional typo,...en then what? :bounce:

Atom
26-08-2009, 05:20 PM
So I make the occasional typo,...en then what? :bounce: Typo? I don't think so, there's a name for that and it's not "typo". I'm sorry.


L
O
L
!

Atom
26-08-2009, 05:25 PM
That's how a Dutch accent looks like in writing. :sqlaugh: That is an interesting comment, and one that I am currently considering as quite possibly accurate.

Ferre
26-08-2009, 05:27 PM
I think it's just due to the fact that my English isn't mine at all, I'm still in the process of getting to know her.

:sorry:

Ferre
26-08-2009, 05:29 PM
..but my English isn't all Dutch to you is it? :sqlaugh:

Atom
26-08-2009, 05:31 PM
LOL!


Now tell us, what do you think about people that don't vote?

Muddy
26-08-2009, 05:32 PM
There, I fixed it for you Ferre!

Atom
26-08-2009, 05:33 PM
There, I fixed it for you Ferre!You're a good man.

Ferre
26-08-2009, 05:44 PM
^^ What he says. :sqrofl:

Ferre
26-08-2009, 05:45 PM
LOL!


Now tell us, what do you think about people that don't vote?

That's me. :sqwink:

Atom
26-08-2009, 05:52 PM
Many people around these parts think it's sacrilege to not vote. And I'm like, WTF???

Jeezus H. Christmas eve and New Years DAY, let me the hell out of this place!!!

LOL!!!!!

Muddy
01-09-2009, 11:54 PM
TjDEsGZLbio

ewomack
03-09-2009, 04:37 PM
Something tells me Werner didn't approve of that...

Ferre
09-10-2009, 08:12 PM
To get back on the topic, I just came across this video;

lvRvN6IUIIQ

This happened only a few days ago in the USA, but was that country not supposed to be an "example" of freedom and democracy for the rest of the world?

Atom
10-10-2009, 12:18 AM
Democracy? I'm not a political type, but isn't that a system that allows 1% of the population to legally own 95% of all the money and in essence run the country? That's what we have going on here.

Atom
10-10-2009, 12:42 AM
I didn't notice any violent demonstration by the protesters, it looked very orderly to me. I suspect that the cops were simply following orders. This is a good example of fascism.

Atom
10-10-2009, 12:50 AM
Oh and please notice that I didn't say earn in post #31, I said own.

Atom
10-10-2009, 12:59 AM
I personally have this terrible feeling that Obama is just another capitalist clown.

Atom
10-10-2009, 01:05 AM
I threw up my hands with capitalism and democracy 36 years ago, it would be a real shame if a lot of the young people today do the same thing, but it's actually worse now than it was back then, so I won't blame them if they do.

Atom
10-10-2009, 01:17 AM
Wall Street is a god damned casino where greed is not only legal, but encouraged. I think that capitalism started out as a very good idea, I can honestly say that it sure as shit didn't end up as one though.

Atom
10-10-2009, 01:23 AM
I think we need some serious reform, or start over from scratch, one or the other.

ewomack
10-10-2009, 09:25 AM
I've heard the US referred to as a "polyarchy" not as a democracy... democracy went out with Greece... though we continued their rich slave society traditions... but, you know, you do what you can...

Atom
11-10-2009, 04:54 PM
Yeah. I saw a PBS special a few weeks back that said that during the dawn of Grecian democracy, there were far more slaves than members of the supposed democracy that ruled them. Slavery is supposed to be unheard of in a democracy.

Atom
11-10-2009, 04:58 PM
I'd say that they were in a bit of a fix there though, as most of the slaves were captured enemies.

Ferre
11-10-2009, 05:02 PM
There were people in those days who actually sold themselves as slaves, I kid you not.

Atom
11-10-2009, 05:08 PM
I believe you.

I think that the very implementation, even on a small scale, of the idea of democracy at that time was actually monumental.

Atom
11-10-2009, 05:13 PM
I guess the question that we need to be asking ourselves at this time is, what in the heck happened to such a monumental idea?

Ferre
11-10-2009, 05:29 PM
I guess it turned out not to be such a monumental idea after-al. :sqwink:

Lately I tend to compare political systems that run our societies with operating systems that run computers, just as with operating systems for computers there are also many different operating systems for society, but operating systems for computers are at least debugged regularly and replaced with an improved version. None of that is going on in politics and we are in dire need of a democracy 2.0 because the current system is infested with bugs and viruses beyond repair.

Atom
11-10-2009, 05:32 PM
Any suggestions?

Atom
11-10-2009, 05:34 PM
I personally think that the house of representatives should possess much more power than it does.

Ferre
11-10-2009, 05:47 PM
Yep, I have suggestions, for one I would completely change the voting system, ban "professional politicians" and replace it with a system where university professors and other professionals who have gathered a lifetime of experience can become "drafted" to serve their last five years before retirement in public service taking seat in several government bodies I would create. After completely dismantling the current system, of course, I would start from scratch, taking all faults of previous systems into account.

I would create several government bodies for several different aspects of society, like a body for education, one for justice, one for general affairs, one for economical affairs, etc. All manned by scientists and other experts in their fields and all non-politicians.

That for starters, of course I have ideas on how those people should be elected etc. but that's going into the details and I'm still working loads of stuff out, I'm actually thinking about this very subject for a book I want to write which will be a blueprint for this democracy 2.0.

It will be open source btw. :sqwink:

Atom
11-10-2009, 05:59 PM
Your suggestions seem feasible to me, as I believe that the least of scientists have much more common sense than the best of politicians. Which brings me to a bit of an off track thought; how many scientists-turned-politicians exist? Few, I suspect.

Atom
11-10-2009, 06:12 PM
I mean, if you really think about it, it doesn't make sense to participate in a broken system. I mean, who the hell wants to be a politician these days? Answer; people that lack common sense. I think that drafting scientists to the political system may prove a worthy endeavor.

Ferre
11-10-2009, 06:41 PM
Yeah, that's what is going on for decades already, sane people turn their back to politics because the criminally insane sociopaths who dwell in the highest levels of that system have created an atmosphere in which no normal person can function without killing one or all of them and sane people can see that coming and avoid that.

The result is a "political world" that is populated with criminally insane sociopaths and a growing population that turns its back on politics for that reason.

It has come to a point where the general public finds it no surprise when politicians are caught with crimes red handed, the term "oh well, it's politics" has become a blanket under which we cover all the nasty shit we know politicians are doing but we can do nothing about anyway.

That's why I think we are ready for an overhaul, but a drastic one at that.

Atom
11-10-2009, 07:06 PM
Ferre, that is a great post.

Next thought..

how do you feel about the US's resistance to possession of nuclear weapons capabilities by an increasing number of countries around the world?

Ferre
11-10-2009, 07:11 PM
That resistance is very selective if you ask me and is all part of those politics we really need to get rid of.

Having said that, I just came across this article here; Serial killers and politicians share traits (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m6d12-Serial-killers-and-politicians-share-traits) so I think awareness is growing which is a good thing.

Atom
11-10-2009, 07:14 PM
That resistance is very selective if you ask me and is all part of those politics we really need to get rid of.Yes but is the resistance a worthy endeavor in your view, is what I'm really asking.


Having said that, I just came across this article here; Serial killers and politicians share traits (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m6d12-Serial-killers-and-politicians-share-traits) so I think awareness is growing which is a good thing.

Ferre
11-10-2009, 07:33 PM
Nah, it's fake resistance and thus not worthy in any other way than as a display of blatant hypocrisy.

One can't advocate for reduction of nuclear weapons while at the same time funding projects for new and more efficient nuclear weapons for one's own and a couple of allies.

Anyway that's how I think about those issues.

Ferre
11-10-2009, 07:37 PM
Here's another article I just read; Perpetual war is here and Americans are getting used to it -- baltimoresun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.smith09oct09,0,1680038.column)

As I said, awareness is growing and that's a good thing.

Atom
11-10-2009, 07:39 PM
Nah, it's fake resistance and thus not worthy in any other way than as a display of blatant hypocrisy.

One can't advocate for reduction of nuclear weapons while at the same time funding projects for new and more efficient nuclear weapons for one's own and a couple of allies.

Anyway that's how I think about those issues.I, and I think that most scientists, would disagree.

I believe that scientists have yet to come up with an answer to the threat, but in the meantime, do you really not think this resistance a worthy endeavor?

Atom
11-10-2009, 07:40 PM
Here's another article I just read; Perpetual war is here and Americans are getting used to it -- baltimoresun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.smith09oct09,0,1680038.column)

As I said, awareness is growing and that's a good thing.Agreed.

Atom
11-10-2009, 07:44 PM
If you think that it is a fake resistance, then what type of resistance do you recommend, if any? At least until science can come up with a profound solution. Because I personally do not believe that politics can produce a solution, but I think that politics may be able to buy us some time.

Ferre
11-10-2009, 07:54 PM
Nah, politics does not buy us time, it shortens it. It's true that politics also can not bring a solution, it is the problem.

I'm afraid that they are going to be doing a lot more damage before we (people who are fed up with it all) reach critical mass and things actually will change and I'm also convinced that it in time will, I just don't know if I will live the day.

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:01 PM
Hmmm..

so what if there were no resistance and just widespread proliferation, do you think that would be best?

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:08 PM
Because I can almost assure you, that there will be widespread nuclear arms proliferation without some type of resistance to it, and maybe even with.

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:11 PM
I think that this is a problem that the world's scientists must address.

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:15 PM
We already know that politics isn't cutting it in that area, they simply buy us time. I think that you were on the right track with your scientist draft idea.

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:18 PM
But of course then someone will come in here and spout off about basic human rights I suppose. We have no right to draft scientists.

Muddy
11-10-2009, 08:21 PM
...how many scientists-turned-politicians exist? Few, I suspect.

I suspect you're right. Probably because down through history most if not all politicians have been in bed with religion and its leaders. Oft times science and religion do not good bed fellows make.

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:21 PM
But I seriously think that they may be our only real chance. They got us into this, I have every confidence that they can get us out, at least temporarily.

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:25 PM
So it seems that even scientists are corrupt, but can they possibly be as corrupt as politicians?

Muddy
11-10-2009, 08:30 PM
I don't think so. I think the very nature of the beast brings evidence that a scientist is less corrupt then a politician. Speaking very generally of course. Perhaps if more scientists became involved in policy making and leadership (notice I didn't say politics), then there would be less involvement by religious leaders. This would be a good thing.

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:33 PM
That is my hope for the human race. Personally, I don't give a shit, as I have no progeny, I'm just trying to help you normal people out here.


:sqwink:

Muddy
11-10-2009, 08:37 PM
Personally, I don't give a shit, as I have no progeny...

That you know of. lol!

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:40 PM
That you know of. lol!Well I'm about 95% sure that I don't. The one girl that could have conceivably conceived any, was found to have had a tipped uterus after the fact. (thank you, lord) lol

She couldn't have gotten pregnant even if she wanted to.

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:45 PM
She did, however, since our separation, have an operation which allowed her to produce children, and she did in fact produce a couple or three of them, but not by me.

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:49 PM
I often feel a bit guilty about that, as my dick is quite big and I'm thinking I may have actually caused that TU problem.


LOL

Atom
11-10-2009, 08:56 PM
True story, folks. I hope that the lol's didn't throw you off, but it's just very hard to contain my laughter sometmes, even cyberily. LOL

Ferre
12-10-2009, 06:40 AM
Hmmm..

so what if there were no resistance and just widespread proliferation, do you think that would be best?


No, sadly enough is the hypocrite and fake "resistance" of America against nuclear proliferation better than no resistance at all.

But as long as America is as hypocrite as they are now and do not address Israel's nuclear weapons no country on earth will feel obliged to give America any credibility in regards of this whole proliferation issue and will ignore it.

BTW, Depleted Uranium munition are in fact "dirty bombs", those are nuclear weapons too and even forbidden by the Geneva convention and as long as the USA keeps using those they also loose any credibility when they claim to want human rights defended etc.


But of course then someone will come in here and spout off about basic human rights I suppose. We have no right to draft scientists.

Nah, it will be a voluntary draft, there would be a possibility for scientists to refuse. Of course in such a system the motivation for scientists to become part of the country's management for the last five years of their working days would be there as it would be regarded an honour and there would also be a material reward system to compensate their time and effort.

This system would have the scientists in the several government bodies vote for any replacement in their own ranks, it's a bit hard to explain but I will try anyway; - Say the government body for justice is composed of 12 ex law professors and one of them is at the end of his five year term, the body will then draw a list of possible candidates (working law professors) and vote for three possible candidates on a first, second and third place. First the one who was voted on as first choice will be contacted, if he/she refuses, the second, etc.

Of course scientists would feel honoured when they are voted on by peers for such an important job, and politics would be more of an honourable job as it is now.

Zap
12-10-2009, 08:47 AM
But as long as America is as hypocrite as they are now and do not address Israel's nuclear weapons no country on earth will feel obliged to give America any credibility in regards of this whole proliferation issue and will ignore it.
Exactly. It's like the NRA going around and telling people that they shouldn't own guns.
First reaction is to say "Yeah. Right.".

Atom
12-10-2009, 09:10 AM
I was kidding about the big dick, it's just average, the rest is true though, lol.

Atom
12-10-2009, 09:12 AM
No, sadly enough is the hypocrite and fake "resistance" of America against nuclear proliferation better than no resistance at all. (...)Whew! I'm glad to hear you say this. I thought you had lost your mind there for a minute.

Atom
12-10-2009, 09:13 AM
Exactly. It's like the NRA going around and telling people that they shouldn't own guns.
First reaction is to say "Yeah. Right.".No it's not, Zap. We are not talking about guns here.

Zap
12-10-2009, 09:16 AM
No it's not, Zap. We are not talking about guns here.

Same concept, Atom.
The guy with the guns that endanger you is telling you not to own guns.
Using guns as an example just brings the concept down to a more personal level.

Atom
12-10-2009, 09:20 AM
Same concept, Atom.
The guy with the guns that endanger you is telling you not to own guns.
Using guns as an example just brings the concept down to a more personal level.Yes, but really though, dude, apples and oranges would be a gross understatement here.

Zap
12-10-2009, 09:24 AM
You want to talk about fruit, now?

LOL!

Atom
12-10-2009, 09:25 AM
Yes but only one kind. lol

Atom
12-10-2009, 09:29 AM
I see that NK test fired several missiles yesterday. :sqfrown:

Ferre
12-10-2009, 09:29 AM
Whew! I'm glad to hear you say this. I thought you had lost your mind there for a minute.

Problem is that it is not effective, it is just a load of hot air when no one feels obliged to comply anyway. the only thing it has effect on is the image of the USA and the loss of more its moral high-ground every time they open their mouth.

Problem is that as it is now all that "resistance" only makes America look like a bullying clown to the rest of the world and that includes the citizens of many of its allies who on their turn put pressure on their governments to re-evaluate their bonds with the USA.

In conclusion, this resistance is counter-productive (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/counterproductive).

Atom
12-10-2009, 09:34 AM
Problem is that it is not effective, it is just a load of hot air when no one feels obliged to comply anyway. the only thing it has effect on is the image of the USA and the loss of more its moral high-ground every time they open their mouth.

Problem is that as it is now all that "resistance" only makes America look like a bullying clown to the rest of the world and that includes the citizens of many of its allies who on their turn put pressure on their governments to re-evaluate their bonds with the USA.

In conclusion, this resistance is counter-productive (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/counterproductive).First you say it's better than nothing and now you're saying it's counter-productive. Make up your mind, dude. lol

Ferre
12-10-2009, 10:33 AM
I say it is counterproductive when the US is doing the bidding, that's a fact that we can do little about. When you listen to the motivation for Iran for example for them to ever want a nuclear weapon it is because they want to have a defence against the USA and Israel and its nuclear weapons.

Not that they want one, but if they did that would be the motivation, according to the US department of CIA itself. Apparently North Korea has proven to the world not to get attacked by the US when a country has one.

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