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Zap
03-06-2010, 04:55 PM
I'm surprised nobody here has created a thread on this yet.

Anyway, here's an interesting link Doc turned me on to today...

Bombshell expose'. The real reason the oil still flows into the Gulf of Mexico. - JoAnneMor's Blog - Blogster (http://www.blogster.com/joannemor/bombshell-expose-the-real-reason-the-oil-still-flows-into-the-gulf-of-mexico)

It goes into detail (with verifiable documentation) about who's going to profit from the oil spill and how the rest of us are going to pay dearly for it. It's just another act of terrorism, perpetrated by the elite on us common folk.

Cryren8972
03-06-2010, 05:46 PM
Money is the root of all evil. I wonder if every American agreed to go on strike and stop making money to fund the government...
what am I saying...the people going to work every day are money deprived for the most part.
I wish there was some way I could pull my own monetary support. Alas...they take it out of my check before I ever see it and use it without asking me if I'm for or against what they're using it for.
I'd like to see a true democratic government, where you could say...this part of my taxes goes to teachers, and this part to stop political assholes that suck the life out of the people and environment.

Muddy
03-06-2010, 06:14 PM
I've commented on this in another thread somewhere in here. I haven't read your article yet and will probably be even more pissed when I do. If that oil reaches our beaches (and it looks now like it will) it will ruin us. We (my wife and I) and many of the local business people have been freaking out about this for some time. Now that it seems almost certain that prevailing winds will drive it our way, we're getting serious about coming up with a contingency plan. Extremely disrupting at best and more likely devastating.

Now...to check out your link...

Zap
03-06-2010, 07:08 PM
I've commented on this in another thread somewhere in here. I haven't read your article yet and will probably be even more pissed when I do. If that oil reaches our beaches (and it looks now like it will) it will ruin us. We (my wife and I) and many of the local business people have been freaking out about this for some time. Now that it seems almost certain that prevailing winds will drive it our way, we're getting serious about coming up with a contingency plan. Extremely disrupting at best and more likely devastating.

Now...to check out your link...

I hate to tell you this, but it's a foregone conclusion that Florida will be affected (READ: Covered in oil).
It's not a question of IF. It's a question of how long it will take for it to reach you.
Some estimates say you could be seeing oil on the shorline as early as this weekend.
That being said, estimates from BP say they MIGHT be able to stop the leak by October. It will surely reach you before then.
The entire Southern US is in for a lot of hard times. This is going to wreck more than a few people's day.

Zap
03-06-2010, 07:15 PM
A little bit of background info...

Ten Things You Need (But Don't Want) To Know About the BP Oil Spill (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19408)

Normally, I would dismiss guys like Alex Jones as kooks. And I still think that a lot of what he says is "out there".
But I can't deny that he's right about a lot of things too.

Zap
03-06-2010, 07:23 PM
From the article above...


The Interior Department's Louisiana branch may have been particularly confused because it appears it was closely fraternizing with the oil industry. The Minerals Management Service, the agency within the department that oversees offshore drilling, routinely accepted gifts from oil companies and even considered itself a part of the oil industry, rather than part of a governmental regulatory agency. Flying on oil executives' private planes was not rare for MMS inspectors in Louisiana, a federal report released Tuesday says. "Skeet-shooting contests, hunting and fishing trips, golf tournaments, crawfish boils, and Christmas parties" were also common.

Is it any wonder that Deepwater Horizon was given a regulatory exclusion by MMS?

It gets worse. Since April 20, when the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, the Interior Department has approved 27 new permits for offshore drilling sites. Here's the kicker: Two of these permits are for BP.

But it gets better still: 26 of the 27 new drilling sites have been granted regulatory exemptions, including those issued to BP.

These fuckers need to be named, fired and prosecuted.

Muddy
03-06-2010, 08:43 PM
I hate to tell you this, but it's a foregone conclusion that Florida will be affected (READ: Covered in oil).
It's not a question of IF. It's a question of how long it will take for it to reach you.
Some estimates say you could be seeing oil on the shorline as early as this weekend.
That being said, estimates from BP say they MIGHT be able to stop the leak by October. It will surely reach you before then.
The entire Southern US is in for a lot of hard times. This is going to wreck more than a few people's day.

Yes, however the area we live in in has historically avoided the currents and weather patterns that bring hurricanes, etc. Our hopes have been (although we hate it for others) that our "pocket" of beaches would be avoided. The problem even with that is that once the headlines say "Oil Hits Gulf Coast" or worse "Oil Hits Florida Coast" the damage is already done. Even to us whether there's oil here or not. The media is a powerful and merciless beast. More than once in the past we've been greatly affected by their lust for sensationalism. Once they announce hurricane conditions or other adverse things as being on the Gulf Coast, tourism (which besides fishing drives our entire economy) at least slows if not starts to creep.

Cryren8972
04-06-2010, 04:42 AM
Media sensationalism? Wha?! *as I get ready for my job at TOYOTA* :sqlaugh:

pctec
04-06-2010, 05:13 AM
We are all just puppet worker bees after all... we only think we control our own destiny. If you think about it, we own and control absolutely nothing...

I am tired of being a puppet... but alas, I have work to do... cya later...

Zap
04-06-2010, 07:08 AM
If we organize ourselves, then we hold all the cards.

Muddy
04-06-2010, 09:25 AM
Just the tip of the iceberg:

BP's lost-wages list: Fishermen and real-estate brokers - Jun. 3, 2010 (http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/03/smallbusiness/bp_wage_claims/index.htm?hpt=Sbin)

pctec
04-06-2010, 10:22 AM
If we organize ourselves, then we hold all the cards.

We wont simply because most of us are content going about our daily routine... Besides, we all know what happens to those who make too many waves :sqconfused:

pctec
04-06-2010, 10:25 AM
Oh, speaking of profiting from BP's disaster...
Hasn't governments and highly places agencies been profiting from war for as long as we can remember?

Strong
04-06-2010, 11:39 AM
This disaster will have many repercussions. Take pensions in the UK. It is estimated that BP pays dividends to 8% of pension funds in the UK, or something like that. They have seen their shares drop by some 60% since the beginning of this disaster. They have been seen previously as a rock solid investment.

I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't bankrupt them. The knock on effects will be wide ranging and for more than those around the Gulf.

Cryren8972
05-06-2010, 08:18 AM
Here's a neat little contraption they're using to help the birdies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n6i1xao3VA

Not sure if they're using it at this particular oil spill, but I like to see this sort of innovation. Up until now, the only thing they could use safely was Dawn dish liquid and man power. It takes more than one washing to get a bird free of the oil, and you have to keep your fingers crossed that they didn't ingest too much of it trying to clean their own feathers.

Strong
05-06-2010, 12:30 PM
What if the bird's head is covered in oil? :sqconfused:

Cryren8972
05-06-2010, 12:59 PM
What if the bird's head is covered in oil? :sqconfused:

The head isn't as imperative as the body...they can't reach their heads to try and clean their feathers, so there's no fear of ingesting. I'm sure they wash their heads, but it wouldn't take as much time and it's not as crucial to get to right away.

Strong
06-06-2010, 08:52 AM
Ah! I see. I usually chop those bits off before cooking them anyway :sqwink:

Muddy
06-06-2010, 09:04 AM
Ah! I see. I usually chop those bits off before cooking them anyway :sqwink:

Riiight, Mr. Veggie. lol!

Strong
06-06-2010, 09:39 AM
:sqbiggrin: Well I'm not really that mean!

Muddy
06-06-2010, 01:10 PM
Don't Worry About Oil Spill. Remember: Oysters Love Crude Oil! - The Consumerist (http://consumerist.com/2010/05/dont-worry-about-oil-spill-remember-oysters-love-crude-oil.html)

The video is a must see. Unbelievable!

Strong
07-06-2010, 08:08 AM
BTW the irony is confounding: Bhopal trial: Eight convicted over India gas disaster (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8725140.stm)

The US government will hold BP to account, but 25 years later ...

Halo
07-06-2010, 10:07 AM
Where are the Yes Men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yes_Men) when you need them?

0lScyQYUHLA

GhrpSW_pnck

Muddy
07-06-2010, 03:41 PM
http://www.theonion.com/articles/massive-flow-of-bullshit-continues-to-gush-from-bp,17564/
(http://www.theonion.com/articles/massive-flow-of-bullshit-continues-to-gush-from-bp,17564/)

Muddy
07-06-2010, 05:54 PM
wmbb.com - Oil Spill Cleanup Jobs Still Available (http://www.panhandleparade.com/index.php/mbb/article/oil_spill_cleanup_jobs_still_available/mbb7723880/)

Halo
07-06-2010, 08:52 PM
wmbb.com - Oil Spill Cleanup Jobs Still Available (http://www.panhandleparade.com/index.php/mbb/article/oil_spill_cleanup_jobs_still_available/mbb7723880/)


Hires will work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for $10 per hour.

Those don't sound like very healthy working conditions, no doubt successful applicants will have to sign away their right to sue if the cleanup job causes their bodies "adverse effects".

Zap
07-06-2010, 10:51 PM
http://www.btwimho.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1247&stc=1&d=1275969032

:sqeek: :sqmad:

Cryren8972
08-06-2010, 03:28 PM
New BP logo competition
Rebranding the BP Logo: The 25 Funniest and Most Creative (http://twistedsifter.com/2010/05/funny-creative-bp-logos-competition/)

Halo
08-06-2010, 10:21 PM
New BP logo competition
Rebranding the BP Logo: The 25 Funniest and Most Creative (http://twistedsifter.com/2010/05/funny-creative-bp-logos-competition/)

Thought this might have been in that lot. Via Cylon from DP. :sqerr:
http://www.btwimho.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1248&stc=1&d=1276053650

Cryren8972
09-06-2010, 04:42 AM
^ that made me a tad queezy inside.

Zap
09-06-2010, 07:27 AM
Thought this might have been in that lot. Via Cylon from DP. :sqerr:
http://www.btwimho.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1248&stc=1&d=1276053650
We should see if he'd be interested in coming here. This place might be a good fit for him.


^ that made me a tad queezy inside.
He has that effect on people.

Halo
09-06-2010, 10:58 AM
We should see if he'd be interested in coming here. This place might be a good fit for him.


Be careful what you wish for you might just get it. :sqwink:


More Alex Jones. Paranoia or truth in there you think?
-aRiC_mwFj8

Ferre
11-06-2010, 06:23 AM
Why Did The U.S. Refuse International Help on The Gulf Oil Spill? (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19655)

Muddy
11-06-2010, 10:37 PM
2AAa0gd7ClM

Muddy
17-06-2010, 12:00 PM
Unified Command for the BP Oil Spill | NOAA Conducts Tests to Determine Fate of Whale Found Dead in Gulf of Mexico (http://ht.ly/1ZJEU)

Strong
17-06-2010, 12:30 PM
"The oil companies just ignore it. The lawmakers do not care and people must live with pollution daily. The situation is now worse than it was 30 years ago. Nothing is changing. When I see the efforts that are being made in the US I feel a great sense of sadness at the double standards. What they do in the US or in Europe is very different."

Nigeria's agony dwarfs the Gulf oil spill. The US and Europe ignore it (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/30/oil-spills-nigeria-niger-delta-shell)

Atom
18-06-2010, 05:13 PM
They say wind is a third the cost of solar but I think that the sun is where it's at, I think we just haven't stumbled onto the way to harvest it properly yet.

Atom
18-06-2010, 05:20 PM
I suppose that it's only when we're hit with a nuclear winter and the like is when we'll wish we'd gone with wind.

Atom
18-06-2010, 05:27 PM
Oh I'm sure I should have said gone with the wind, but I can't think of everything.
lol

Atom
18-06-2010, 05:36 PM
Shit that may have even gotten me a thanked post or two. Dammit.
lol

Muddy
18-06-2010, 05:41 PM
Oh I'm sure I should have said gone with the wind, but I can't think of everything.
lol

At least not at the right time, right? I have the same problem!

Atom
18-06-2010, 05:51 PM
At least not at the right time, right? I have the same problem!It's hard. Damn, you have to get half tanked out of your mind to come up with anything descent, lol.

Atom
20-06-2010, 12:21 AM
Now about this oil business..


I can't get through the OP article, it's way too long and boring for me, it started out kind of interesting though. I have a short attention span for certain things I guess, and I'm not the greatest reader. I'll tell you what really does interest me though, and that is the sun.

Atom
20-06-2010, 12:25 AM
You can't tell me that the power answer isn't sitting right in front of us, I'll never believe that, not with the sun just sitting right up there, close by, shining every single day.

Muddy
20-06-2010, 12:28 AM
HtfevVB5eBk

Atom
20-06-2010, 12:30 AM
Nuclear winter? N/P. The really important equipment will be above the atmosphere.

Atom
20-06-2010, 12:43 AM
The sun is a superpower giant, countless times more powerful than every drop of oil on earth combined, and the damned thing is sitting right in our backyard.

Ferre
20-06-2010, 07:03 AM
North America faces years of toxic oil rain from BP oil spill chemical dispersants (http://www.examiner.com/x-33986-Political-Spin-Examiner~y2010m6d17-North-America-facing-years-of-toxic-rain-from-poisonous-BP-oil-spill-dispersants)

Idiots! :sqmad:


When you pour more than a million gallons of toxic chemical dispersants on top of an oil spill, it doesnít just disappear. In this case, it moves to the atmosphere, where it will travel hundreds, if not thousands of miles from the site of the BP oil spill, in the form of toxic rain.

BPís oil spill-fighting dispersant of choice is Corexit 9500. It has been banned in Europe for good reason. Corexit 9500 is one of the most environmentally enduring, toxic chemical dispersants ever created to battle an oil spill. Add to that the millions of gallons of oil that have been burned, releasing even more toxins into the atmosphere, and you have a recipe for something much worse than acid rain.

Oil in the environment is toxic at 11 PPM (parts per million). Corexit 9500 is toxic at only 2.61 PPM. But Corexit 9500 has another precarious characteristic; itís reaction to warm water.

As the water in the Gulf of Mexico heats up, Corexit 9500 goes through a molecular transition. It changes from a liquid to a gas, which is readily absorbed by clouds and released as toxic rain. The chemical-laden rain then falls on crops, reservoirs, animals and of course, people.

Cryren8972
20-06-2010, 07:11 AM
Really wanna get angry Ferre? Check out who owns Corexit and how much they stand to make off this...
Corexit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corexit)
If you really start digging...you'll get pissed. I did...

Cryren8972
20-06-2010, 07:21 AM
This is a nice start:
Nalco Company History - Nalco Company (http://www.nalco.com/aboutnalco/history.htm)

Little more of a glimpse into what you're looking for:
`FM-Vedanta ties influenced Nalco move` (http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/%60fm-vedanta-ties-influenced-nalco-move%60/248746/)

The punchline?:
Cabinet may take up Nalco, Neyveli divestment today (http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/cabinet-may-takenalco-neyveli-divestment-today/248126/)

Ferre
20-06-2010, 11:59 AM
How the ultimate BP Gulf disaster could kill millions - by Terrence Aym - Helium (http://www.helium.com/items/1864136-how-the-ultimate-bp-gulf-disaster-could-kill-millions)


With the emerging evidence of fissures, the quiet fear now is the methane bubble rupturing the seabed and exploding into the Gulf waters. If the bubble escapes, every ship, drilling rig and structure within the region of the bubble will instantaneously sink. All the workers, engineers, Coast Guard personnel and marine biologists measuring the oil plumes' advance will instantly perish.

As horrible as that is, what would follow is an event so potentially horrific that it equals in its fury the Indonesian tsunami that killed more than 600,000, or the destruction of Pompeii by Mt. Vesuvius.

Ferre
21-06-2010, 03:08 AM
0dqU1O9pv4c

Zap
24-06-2010, 05:47 PM
Another BP Spill

Brian
24-06-2010, 09:02 PM
This is so fucking depressing.

Muddy
24-06-2010, 09:33 PM
Another BP Spill

Great minds! (http://www.btwimho.com/showpost.php?p=45058&postcount=34) :sqbiggrin:

Atom
25-06-2010, 09:11 AM
This is so fucking depressing.Yep. We really need to get our heads out of the sludge and into the sky. I really can't think of anything busting up the oil biz better than a good solar or wind breakthrough.

Ferre
25-06-2010, 09:37 AM
Yep. We really need to get our heads out of the sludge and into the sky. I really can't think of anything busting up the oil biz better than a good solar or wind breakthrough.

True that.

How Africa's desert sun can bring Europe power | Science | The Observer (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/dec/02/renewableenergy.solarpower)


A £5bn solar power plan, backed by a Jordanian prince, could provide the EU with a sixth of its electricity needs - and cut carbon emissions

And what about this one?

Huge Solar Plants Bloom in Desert (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/11/69528)


The barren deserts of Southern California are known for relentless sunshine and miles of empty space -- the perfect combination for the world's most ambitious solar-energy projects.

Two Southern California utility companies are planning to develop a pair of sun-powered power plants that they claim will dwarf existing solar facilities and could rival fossil-fuel-driven power plants.

Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric are working with Stirling Energy Systems, a Phoenix startup that has paired a large and efficient solar dish with a 200-year-old Stirling engine design.

Stirling Energy Systems is planning to build two separate solar farms, one with the capacity to generate 500 megawatts of electricity in the Mojave Desert near Victorville, California, for SoCal Edison, and a 300-megawatt plant in the Imperial Valley, near Calexico, California, for SDG&E. The utilities have signed 20-year deals to buy all the juice the farms can turn out, and have options to expand the plants if they are successful.

It can be done, we have the technology, what we also have is a vast lobby and propaganda machine funded by the oil industry to doubt the efficiency of solar and wind energy.

Brian
25-06-2010, 11:16 AM
Cape Wind (http://www.capewind.org/) is in the works here in Massachusetts. Once it is complete it will provide most of the electricity needed for Cape Cod and the islands off the coast.

The great part about the wind: No wind spills! :D

Ferre
29-06-2010, 03:43 AM
9cvQaHPy9e4

Ferre
29-06-2010, 06:24 AM
pxDf-KkMCKQ

Cryren8972
30-06-2010, 04:49 AM
pxDf-KkMCKQ

I could cry. How can BP officials sleep at night? I would be hysterical if I were responsible for anything remotely close to this. I've been keeping an eye out on what they're doing...and it's not much. They collect oil everyday. What?! Is that the best you can do? You're killing our entire ocean!

Strong
30-06-2010, 05:58 AM
I hide under a blanket when I get to feeling that way. Best done with a flash light and a nice hot cup of tea. A dirty mag wouldn't go a miss, but I suppose in this age of new fangled wizardry a lap top and a broadband connection would do.

Ferre
30-06-2010, 09:01 AM
Avertible catastrophe (http://www.financialpost.com/Avertible+catastrophe/3203808/story.html)


Some are attuned to the possibility of looming catastrophe and know how to head it off. Others are unprepared for risk and even unable to get their priorities straight when risk turns to reality.

The Dutch fall into the first group. Three days after the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico began on April 20, the Netherlands offered the U.S. government ships equipped to handle a major spill, one much larger than the BP spill that then appeared to be underway. "Our system can handle 400 cubic metres per hour," Weird Koops, the chairman of Spill Response Group Holland, told Radio Netherlands Worldwide, giving each Dutch ship more cleanup capacity than all the ships that the U.S. was then employing in the Gulf to combat the spill.

To protect against the possibility that its equipment wouldn't capture all the oil gushing from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch also offered to prepare for the U.S. a contingency plan to protect Louisiana's marshlands with sand barriers. One Dutch research institute specializing in deltas, coastal areas and rivers, in fact, developed a strategy to begin building 60-mile-long sand dikes within three weeks.

The Dutch know how to handle maritime emergencies. In the event of an oil spill, The Netherlands government, which owns its own ships and high-tech skimmers, gives an oil company 12 hours to demonstrate it has the spill in hand. If the company shows signs of unpreparedness, the government dispatches its own ships at the oil company's expense. "If there's a country that's experienced with building dikes and managing water, it's the Netherlands," says Geert Visser, the Dutch consul general in Houston.

In sharp contrast to Dutch preparedness before the fact and the Dutch instinct to dive into action once an emergency becomes apparent, witness the American reaction to the Dutch offer of help. The U.S. government responded with "Thanks but no thanks," remarked Visser, despite BP's desire to bring in the Dutch equipment and despite the no-lose nature of the Dutch offer --the Dutch government offered the use of its equipment at no charge. Even after the U.S. refused, the Dutch kept their vessels on standby, hoping the Americans would come round. By May 5, the U.S. had not come round. To the contrary, the U.S. had also turned down offers of help from 12 other governments, most of them with superior expertise and equipment --unlike the U.S., Europe has robust fleets of Oil Spill Response Vessels that sail circles around their make-shift U.S. counterparts.

Read more: Avertible catastrophe (http://www.financialpost.com/Avertible+catastrophe/3203808/story.html#ixzz0sLQYBweA)


The sad part, for us Europeans is, that we are receiving all the negative side effects of that spill anyway, whether we want it or not, those chemicals will spread all over the world and meanwhile those primitive dumb fuckers in America with their misplaced arrogance keep blocking serious attempts to actually try and do something about this catastrophe.

If you read some anger between the lines, you are correct :sqconfused:

Halo
30-06-2010, 09:04 AM
pxDf-KkMCKQ

In the same way we look with pity on the life in the ocean, I wonder if there are ETs watching us from afar with the same kind of pity, thinking "stupid apes".

From the film Contact (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_(film)):


Panel member: If you were to meet these Vegans, and were permitted only one question to ask of them, what would it be?
Ellie Arroway: Well, I suppose it would be, how did you do it? How did you evolve, how did you survive this technological adolescence without destroying yourself?

Sometimes I don't think we will survive our technological adolescence. :sqfrown:


-ZhvBkrq6rU

Muddy
30-06-2010, 09:29 AM
9cvQaHPy9e4

Interesting compilation but that damn music drives me NUTS. Plus, IMHO Richard Hoagland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Hoagland) is a whackjob.

Muddy
30-06-2010, 09:30 AM
Avertible catastrophe (http://www.financialpost.com/Avertible+catastrophe/3203808/story.html)



The sad part, for us Europeans is, that we are receiving all the negative side effects of that spill anyway, whether we want it or not, those chemicals will spread all over the world and meanwhile those primitive dumb fuckers in America with their misplaced arrogance keep blocking serious attempts to actually try and do something about this catastrophe.

If you read some anger between the lines, you are correct :sqconfused:

This is so true and I share your anger.

Atom
30-06-2010, 10:31 AM
I could cry. How can BP officials sleep at night? I would be hysterical if I were responsible for anything remotely close to this. I've been keeping an eye out on what they're doing...and it's not much. They collect oil everyday. What?! Is that the best you can do? You're killing our entire ocean!Hell this ain't nothin', there's 100's of them, wait till two or three or more pop at the same time due to some earth quake or something. We need to replace oil technology.

Atom
30-06-2010, 10:58 AM
I'm thinking for example that it would take only a relatively small meteorite getting through the atmo and striking the earth in certain areas to rupture god knows how many at a time. We really need to get rid of them, shut most of them right down.

Muddy
30-06-2010, 11:02 AM
http://response.restoration.noaa.gov/book_shelf/2251_TMF72-2010-06-29-2100.pdf

Atom
30-06-2010, 11:06 AM
Speaking of earth quakes, I see in the news this morning that southern Mexico just had one.

Muddy
30-06-2010, 11:08 AM
http://response.restoration.noaa.gov/book_shelf/2251_TMF72-2010-06-29-2100.pdf

Atom
30-06-2010, 11:12 AM
Muddy, your post #69 is blank, I downloaded the pdf from my instant email notification but there were errors and it couldn't be displayed.

Atom
30-06-2010, 11:14 AM
Ok I see the link in post# 69 now, I'll try it again.

Atom
30-06-2010, 11:15 AM
Nope, no go, acrobat reader says the file is damaged and could not be repaired.

Muddy
30-06-2010, 11:17 AM
How about #71?

Atom
30-06-2010, 11:24 AM
How about #71?oops, I meant 71.

69 is blank and 71 has a link to a pdf that apparently has errors and won't open in Acrobat Reader.

Muddy
30-06-2010, 11:26 AM
That's weird...it opens for me. I'll delete 69.

Atom
30-06-2010, 11:29 AM
Seems we've had this problem once before. I wish I could be sure but you know how us old folks are. lol!

Atom
30-06-2010, 11:58 AM
That's weird...it opens for me. I'll delete 69.Well if it opens for others then I'll need to reinstall my Adobe Acrobat Reader or update it or some damn thing, as long as it doesn't cost me anything. lol

Muddy
30-06-2010, 12:06 PM
I just had to update mine today so I know there's a new one available.

Atom
30-06-2010, 12:10 PM
Jeezus no wonder it doesn't work, you'd better do a system restore. lol

Atom
30-06-2010, 12:12 PM
I won't say that it's impossible for sun energy to eventually fall into the hands of trouble like oil has, but it seems less likely.

Atom
30-06-2010, 12:30 PM
I need to do a system advance, my progies are older than Bill Gates.

Ferre
30-06-2010, 01:40 PM
Plus, IMHO Richard Hoagland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Hoagland) is a whackjob.

Wow, I didn't know the dude, but he sure fits the profile. :sqlaugh:

Cryren8972
01-07-2010, 04:47 AM
Avertible catastrophe (http://www.financialpost.com/Avertible+catastrophe/3203808/story.html)



The sad part, for us Europeans is, that we are receiving all the negative side effects of that spill anyway, whether we want it or not, those chemicals will spread all over the world and meanwhile those primitive dumb fuckers in America with their misplaced arrogance keep blocking serious attempts to actually try and do something about this catastrophe.

If you read some anger between the lines, you are correct :sqconfused:
It appears we are now accepting international help...but only boom and skimmers? What?!

US accepts international assistance for Gulf spill - Forbes.com (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/06/30/business-energy-financial-impact-us-gulf-oil-spill-international-help_7732032.html?boxes=Homepagebusinessnews)

Atom
03-07-2010, 10:54 PM
Huh, well apparently we've figured out how to turn algae into oil, that would put a different spin on things, but still I don't think oil is the way to go, it seems archaic and volatile and just plain nasty to me compared to a pure energy such as light.

Muddy
04-07-2010, 12:06 AM
Huh, well apparently we've figured out how to turn algae into oil, that would put a different spin on things, but still I don't think oil is the way to go, it seems archaic and volatile and just plain nasty to me compared to a pure energy such as light.

Yes, I heard about that. Apparently an algae "field" the size of Texas would power the entire globe.

Ferre
04-07-2010, 10:24 PM
On a side note; This means the Gulf Coast is now rich in oil. Time to send troops over there to liberate it.

Muddy
04-07-2010, 10:48 PM
Just send sexy Dutch girls dressed in orange.

Muddy
06-07-2010, 11:10 PM
This Just In - CNN.com Blogs (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/06/70s-board-game-contains-eerie-bp-oil-spill-scenarios/?hpt=T1)

Strong
07-07-2010, 04:21 AM
A 40 year old board game is new news now :sqbiggrin:

Atom
07-07-2010, 07:56 AM
27,000 Abandoned Gulf Oil Wells May Be Leaking - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/07/national/main6653016.shtml)

Strong
07-07-2010, 12:55 PM
Hmmm... a bit of logic gone wrong there I think. They said 27,000 wells left abandoned, and nobody is checking them. Then they go on to assume all 27,000, "maybe", leaking.

What they should have said was there are 27,000 unchecked/maintained wells. Some of which may be leaking, but actually we have no idea cos we didn't check either.

Still it is worrying, but then I guess they knew it would be under the present circumstances.

Atom
07-07-2010, 03:27 PM
Hmmm... a bit of logic gone wrong there I think. They said 27,000 wells left abandoned, and nobody is checking them. Then they go on to assume all 27,000, "maybe", leaking.Yes, I think they're employing a little shock value notwithstanding a worthy motive, but I do wonder how many of them could actually be leaking and how badly, and how much time it would be before the ones that don't leak do in an educated estimate.

What they should have said was there are 27,000 unchecked/maintained wells. Some of which may be leaking, but actually we have no idea cos we didn't check either.

Still it is worrying, but then I guess they knew it would be under the present circumstances.It would seem to me that all abandoned oil wells are accidents just waiting to happen, not to even mention the live ones.

Strong
08-07-2010, 06:52 AM
Everything is a risk, take letting Israel have The Bomb.

Atom
08-07-2010, 11:59 AM
Yeah. That may not have been such a good idea.

I don't know, the thought of a slew of well casings degrading or rupturing around the same time is haunting, shouldn't we at least figure out how to cap them off at seabed level? I suppose they could still leak though, I just think oil is a bad idea in general, not to mention drilling for it, the stuff is pretty nasty in all stages of refinement if you think about it.

Ferre
08-07-2010, 04:30 PM
The Water In The Gulf Of Mexico Is Now Highly Toxic (http://howtohelpsavetheenvironment.com/archives/the-water-in-the-gulf-of-mexico-is-now-highly-toxic)

iCZyRaFo5vM

Atom
08-07-2010, 07:31 PM
Did that guy just say in essence that Corexit was toxic? I think I'd rather them use baking soda which wouldn't help at all and tell everyone it's Corexit than what appears under the circumstances as adding to the problem, at least baking soda is neutral.

Atom
08-07-2010, 07:45 PM
I don't understand why they would use something that toxic, that really doesn't make sense to me, they must know that the water is going to be sampled and tested independently by qualified professionals.

Atom
09-07-2010, 08:21 AM
Why in the world would anyone pollute the water with toxins after an oil spill/leak? That just makes no sense to me at all.

Muddy
09-07-2010, 10:06 AM
Why in the world would anyone pollute the water with toxins after an oil spill/leak? That just makes no sense to me at all.

If it sinks the oil so the spill doesn't look so big on the surface, then it serves their purpose quite nicely.

Atom
09-07-2010, 11:39 AM
If it sinks the oil so the spill doesn't look so big on the surface, then it serves their purpose quite nicely.Wouldn't it be sunk more nicely if they used something nontoxic?

Muddy
09-07-2010, 09:25 PM
Wouldn't it be sunk more nicely if they used something nontoxic?

Well yeah, but I don't think they care.

Atom
09-07-2010, 09:31 PM
I was just watching Need To Know on PBS and I think they said that the US gov is a major customer of BP. I wish I hadn't had company when it was on, I was only able to catch bits and pieces, I'll need to catch a rerun I guess.

Atom
09-07-2010, 09:44 PM
Huh, maybe not then, I just found a vid of it on the Need To Know website:
Need To Know | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/)



video
BPs other disaster | Need to Know | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/video/bps-other-disaster/2134/)









.

Atom
09-07-2010, 11:03 PM
I was surprised when the guy said that there wasn't a clear consensus from scientists when she asked what the releasing of that many pounds of those chemicals into the air meant in terms of harm.

Atom
09-07-2010, 11:15 PM
I'm actually wondering if the chemicals released into the air contaminated the water as well and was some of the pollutants the testers in the video in post #97 were finding in their water samples.

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 07:32 AM
I don't understand why they would use something that toxic, that really doesn't make sense to me, they must know that the water is going to be sampled and tested independently by qualified professionals.

Why Atom...they use Corexit because they can buy it from themselves. It's a way to recoup some of that money.

Think Progress to oil giant. (http://thinkprogress.org/2010/05/17/bp-dispersant-toxic/)

Now...if you really dig into it, you find that there are also some other prominent folks that are going to make money off of toxifying the ocean.

Bombshell expose A Charging Elephant (http://dancingczars.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/bombshell-expose-the-real-reason-the-oil-still-flows-into-the-gulf-of-mexico/)

Now you know why they would leave the oil to damage our oceans, then spray toxic chemicals over it. Simple...money. Lots of it.

Atom
10-07-2010, 07:42 AM
Why Atom...they use Corexit because they can buy it from themselves. It's a way to recoup some of that money.

Think Progress to oil giant. (http://thinkprogress.org/2010/05/17/bp-dispersant-toxic/)

Now...if you really dig into it, you find that there are also some other prominent folks that are going to make money off of toxifying the ocean.

Bombshell expose A Charging Elephant (http://dancingczars.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/bombshell-expose-the-real-reason-the-oil-still-flows-into-the-gulf-of-mexico/)

Now you know why they would leave the oil to damage our oceans, then spray toxic chemicals over it. Simple...money. Lots of it.I don't want to dig into it, I'd rather you just explain it. It still doesn't make sense to me.

Atom
10-07-2010, 07:44 AM
Why would anyone fix a pollution problem by more polluting?

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 07:46 AM
I didn't say it made sense...but it sheds some light as to the why.
There are people that are making money off of this chemical. The more they sell, the more money they make. The more they pour into the ocean...the more they sell. Soooo...if they continue gushing oil and chemicals into the ocean...they stand to make a tidy profit. Read the second link, and you'll see just WHO is making a profit. Then you'll have one of those "ah ha" moments.
And afterwards, you'll be sad...because you'll realize what men are capable of (destroying our planet) just to have some cash lining their pockets. It's a sad situation....

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 07:47 AM
Why would anyone fix a pollution problem by more polluting?

Because they don't give a rat's ass about the pollution.

Atom
10-07-2010, 07:56 AM
I didn't say it made sense...And I didn't say you said it made sense, I said it doesn't make sense to me.
but it sheds some light as to the why.
There are people that are making money off of this chemical. The more they sell, the more money they make. The more they pour into the ocean...the more they sell. Soooo...if they continue gushing oil and chemicals into the ocean...they stand to make a tidy profit. Read the second link, and you'll see just WHO is making a profit. Then you'll have one of those "ah ha" moments.
And afterwards, you'll be sad...because you'll realize what men are capable of (destroying our planet) just to have some cash lining their pockets. It's a sad situation....I wonder if a nontoxic dispersant even exists. Do you know?

Atom
10-07-2010, 08:00 AM
Because they don't give a rat's ass about the pollution.This answer doesn't address my question at all, Cry, I'm not sure if I can put the question any simpler.

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 08:00 AM
And I didn't say you said it made sense, I said it doesn't make sense to me.I wonder if a nontoxic dispersant even exists. Do you know?

As Ferre mentioned, there are non toxic ways to handle the spill....but they turned those methods down in order to make money on THIS method. Other countries have the technology to contain this spill....but then they would make money...not the guys getting rich at the moment.

Atom
10-07-2010, 08:07 AM
As Ferre mentioned, there are non toxic ways to handle the spill....but they turned those methods down in order to make money on THIS method. Other countries have the technology to contain this spill....but then they would make money...not the guys getting rich at the moment.Ok, we've established that there is a nontoxic alternative. Now my question is, why is there a toxic alternative? How can a toxic method even exist? It doesn't make sense to me that a toxic chemical treatment even exists.

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 08:11 AM
Ok, we've established that there is a nontoxic alternative. Now my question is, why is there a toxic alternative? How can a toxic method even exist? It doesn't make sense to me that a toxic chemical treatment even exists.

Exxon created Corexit for just this sort of situation. The first chemical they produced, Corexit 9500, was even more toxic than the current one being used. It's a "cost effective" way of handling an oil spill.

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 08:13 AM
Atom, I guess what you're not wrapping your head around, is that this is all about money. It doesn't make sense. I've been following closely and digging wherever I can find information. The truth of the matter is that Corexit exists to make the oil companies money. Other methods don't stand to line as many pockets. Read the links, and you'll get a clearer picture. Point blank...this is the best way for the most people to cash in on a devastating situation.

Atom
10-07-2010, 08:13 AM
Exxon created Corexit for just this sort of situation. The first chemical they produced, Corexit 9500, was even more toxic than the current one being used. It's a "cost effective" way of handling an oil spill.I see, so the reason that a toxic treatment exists is because it's cheaper, is that your understanding?

Atom
10-07-2010, 08:15 AM
Atom, I guess what you're not wrapping your head around, is that this is all about money. (...)Ok, thanks.

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 08:28 AM
Here's how it went, simply put:
Exxon: So what do we do about this oil spill thing?\
Nalco: Well, we have this chemical that will push the oil to the bottom of the ocean where people won't notice.
Exxon: Is it safe?
Nalco: Well...it's cheap, and we can sell it to you at a profit to yourself if you invest in the company.
Exxon: Sounds great! What do we tell the American public when they realize it's toxic?
Nalco: Oh, we're working on a less toxic alternative
Nalco PR officials: Not less toxic, safer.
Nalco: Oh...we're working on a safer alternative
Exxon: Is the alternative as cheap as the original?
Nalco: Sure, hardly any difference at all really
Exxon: OK, we, along with the American government will invest in your company.
Nalco: YES! (shoving money in their pockets)
Exxon: When can we get this show on the road?
Nalco: Today! We'll start spraying this shit today!
Exxon: Awesome! How do WE make money?
Nalco: Well, once you own stock in the company, then of course you stand to make a tidy profit off of our profits. So in effect, all the money you've lost on the oil spill you can recapture that way. In other words, you can make money on each and every oil spill.
Exxon: YES! (shoving money in their pockets)
American public: What?! That shit's toxic!
Exxon/Nalco: Oh...well we are currently working on a less toxic, I mean, safer alternative
American public: Oh...whew. We thought this might be an issue. (shelling money out of pockets)
Exxon/Nalco: Suckers!

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 08:31 AM
Once BP realized the "benefits" of owning Nalco, they stepped in and started their own little profit making scheme. Everyone's happy. Well, except the fish, fishermen, birds, marine life...you get the picture.

Atom
10-07-2010, 09:01 AM
"Exxon: Is it safe?
Nalco: Well...it's cheap, and we can sell it to you at a profit to yourself if you invest in the company.
Exxon: Sounds great!"

This doesn't sound great to me. Not safe cannot be great under any circumstances, including monetary. I think we're on the same page, Cry.

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 09:08 AM
"Exxon: Is it safe?
Nalco: Well...it's cheap, and we can sell it to you at a profit to yourself if you invest in the company.
Exxon: Sounds great!"

This doesn't sound great to me. Not safe cannot be great under any circumstances, including monetary. I think we're on the same page, Cry.

Of course we are. I abhor what's happening in our ocean. I really hate that someone is making a profit on it. In situations like this, I feel truly powerless and small. We have to sit back and watch one of the worst disasters in our history unfold, then watch while they add insult to injury. What marine life the oil doesn't kill...the Corexit will. It's very sad. :sqfrown:

Atom
10-07-2010, 09:21 AM
I think we need a few miserably wealthy philanthropists to secretly round up groups of vigilantes to take care of some of these 'executive problems'. :sqwink:

Atom
10-07-2010, 09:25 AM
Actually I think I read something about Buffet being on the wrong side of this coin.

Atom
10-07-2010, 09:35 AM
Or it may have been a Charlie Rose interview I'm thinking of where he was on the wrong side of the financial collapse coin, or possibly both.

Atom
10-07-2010, 09:37 AM
I don't know, I sometimes think that having a bad memory is a good thing, I'm getting tired of all this crap anyway.

Cryren8972
10-07-2010, 09:43 AM
What's really confusing, the EPA has asked BP to stop spraying Corexit...they haven't.

BP shuns US government, EPA: Corexit still flows against orders: Media blackout worsens (http://www.examiner.com/x-33986-Political-Spin-Examiner~y2010m7d5-BP-laughs-in-the-face-of-US-government-Corexit-still-flows-against-orders-Media-blackout-worsens)

ewomack
10-07-2010, 04:49 PM
I'm really not sure what to say after reading through this thread, except that I feel more and more that we're truly reaching the end of civilization and a bunch of people with a skewed perspective have taken control and don't even seem to know what they're doing...

Muddy
10-07-2010, 09:28 PM
I'm really not sure what to say after reading through this thread, except that I feel more and more that we're truly reaching the end of civilization and a bunch of people with a skewed perspective have taken control and don't even seem to know what they're doing...

Thanks for describing BTWIMHO, but this thread is about BP...

ewomack
11-07-2010, 05:42 PM
Sorry, I thought I was in "private messages to staff..." whoops...

Atom
15-07-2010, 01:28 AM
I can't believe all this trouble and mess from one ruptured pipe, I truly dread to ever see 2 or 3 ruptured simultaneously. Off shore drilling, what a completely terrible idea.

Ferre
15-07-2010, 05:19 AM
Offshore drilling can be done relatively secure and there are a number of technical applications available to prevent a drilled well to spill in case of accident. Those applications are used all over Europe and laws demand the use.

Sadly enough the USA does not force (by law) oil companies to use safety valves, this thanks to Dick Cheney (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2010/may/03/usa-dickcheney) who personally made it legal for oil companies to save a few bucks on those valves.

That's the stuff that angers me the most, we have this catastrophe due to BP being cheap and greedy for more profits on top of the billions they already earn anyway. For me that's criminal neglect with massive death and destruction as a result, as far as I'm concerned all the people responsible in the creation of this catastrophe should be persecuted and receive life sentences.

Atom
15-07-2010, 07:39 AM
Allow me to rephrase that; the widespread use of hydrocarbon fuels in the world today stinks! I think that pretty much explains what I think about the production of the goddamn rotten stink juice as well.









.

Strong
15-07-2010, 08:26 AM
Put the blame where it is due:

Atom
17-07-2010, 09:34 PM
Creating an Artificial Leaf
http://www.thirteen.org/curious/survival/creating-an-artificial-leaf/17/


Finding the Right Catalyst
http://www.thirteen.org/curious/survival/finding-the-right-catalyst/14/


A Fuel Cell Primer
http://www.thirteen.org/curious/survival/a-fuel-cell-primer/12/

Atom
18-07-2010, 12:19 AM
This is the full episode which contains the three segments in the above post but also contains a segment on cancer in the second half. Check it out.. http://www.thirteen.org/curious/survival/watch-the-full-episode-survival/23/


the energy from the sun that hits the earth in 1 hour is equal to all the power consumed by everyone on the planet for 1 year.

Atom
18-07-2010, 01:12 AM
Actually you should skip the three in post #137 and watch the one in post #138 because it has additional info, I shouldn't have posted the three. I was watching this on PBS tonight, I haven't seen this Curious series before, I was glad to see they have a website with videos.

Ferre
19-07-2010, 05:48 AM
TnSiurR3O9Y

Halo
25-07-2010, 01:29 AM
The AntiTerrorist's summary of the disaster that keeps on giving:
zt5IOYLoYx4

Atom
25-07-2010, 03:35 PM
I think that it would be much more difficult to monopolize on electricity from the sun than oil from the ground. I hope technology hurries up, not a moment to waste.