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View Full Version : Which of the following rights could you do without?



Ferre
25-10-2010, 01:57 PM
Simple poll; Participate | Council of Europe (http://human-rights-convention.org/live-up-your-rights-2/)

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Zap
26-10-2010, 07:10 AM
I voted, but I did not vote on the following question...


In whom would you have most faith with regard to securing your human rights

None of the answers represented my view that the people (all of us) collectively have the best chance at securing our own rights because we have the most to lose if that job is screwed up.

pctec
26-10-2010, 07:13 AM
The poll itself sounds like an attempt to soften us to whats about to come... I don't like it...

Ferre
26-10-2010, 07:32 AM
The poll itself sounds like an attempt to soften us to whats about to come... I don't like it...

That's what I thought too.

people's basic rights are not adjustable with popularity polls, that's not the purpose of those rights.

The purpose of those rights is to set the borders of jurisdiction for politicians, it draws the line between the jurisdiction of the state and the people. Those rights are a non-trespassing area for the state, those rights are the property of the individual and no state has jurisdiction to enter that property.

All this poll does is prove the contempt the unelected EU "government" displays toward the European people. They (the EU) even have the guts to put people's fundamental rights to question in a frikkin popularity poll.

That really pisses me off. :sqmad:

Strong
26-10-2010, 12:20 PM
The unelected nature of some of the structures of the European political establishment is a real stumbling block to democracy a truly influential European voice in the world. It needs to be made accountable to the PEOPLE of Europe and not just the political heads of the European Union. Until that happens it is a laughing stock and should only be looked upon with scorn.

ewomack
27-10-2010, 08:17 AM
Movements in my own country make me wonder if letting "the people" decide won't just end in despotism anyway. There are people in my family and surroundings who think Sarah Palin should become president immediately. There are people I know personally who think government health care is just power's way of suppressing "the people." Most sad, I know people who would like the US to become a "Christian Nation" where atheists and homosexuals are "cured" or killed. All I can hope is that these people do not represent enough of a majority to actually make this happen. Not that I want an elite dictatorship either, but "the people" are beginning to scare me just as much as the scary powerful rulers. This often leaves me thinking that almost any form of government, no matter how "morally" founded, will eventually erupt in tyranny due to some drive in human nature. There's always someone who wants absolute power and often that person finds the means to get it. History is strewn with such examples. The US seems well poised for this, unfortunately. All it would take is a very charismatic leader with media savvy and influence to sway enough of the populace towards something horrible. If that does happen, "the people" will be just as much to blame as the powerful. But I hope I'm wrong.

Zap
27-10-2010, 09:10 AM
People often ask how the citizens of Germany could allow Hitler's rise and stand by while he murdered the innocent.
This is how it all begins.

Strong
27-10-2010, 12:41 PM
Movements in my own country make me wonder if letting "the people" decide won't just end in despotism anyway. There are people in my family and surroundings who think Sarah Palin should become president immediately. There are people I know personally who think government health care is just power's way of suppressing "the people." Most sad, I know people who would like the US to become a "Christian Nation" where atheists and homosexuals are "cured" or killed. All I can hope is that these people do not represent enough of a majority to actually make this happen. Not that I want an elite dictatorship either, but "the people" are beginning to scare me just as much as the scary powerful rulers. This often leaves me thinking that almost any form of government, no matter how "morally" founded, will eventually erupt in tyranny due to some drive in human nature. There's always someone who wants absolute power and often that person finds the means to get it. History is strewn with such examples. The US seems well poised for this, unfortunately. All it would take is a very charismatic leader with media savvy and influence to sway enough of the populace towards something horrible. If that does happen, "the people" will be just as much to blame as the powerful. But I hope I'm wrong.

If I had to choose between tyrannies I would have to go with democracy, simply on the grounds that, while it may be possible to fool the people some of the time, it can't happen all the time. Wait ...

Hitler, Blair, Bush ... OK, I give up, can someone stop the planet, I want to get off! :sqfrown:

Ferre
27-10-2010, 06:12 PM
We are living in a time where a dude who covertly bombs hundreds of people to pieces with remote controlled killer drones in a country that's supposed to be one of his allies receives a Nobel Peace price.

Nuff said.

ewomack
27-10-2010, 08:58 PM
People often ask how the citizens of Germany could allow Hitler's rise and stand by while he murdered the innocent.
This is how it all begins.

The same way that the citizens of the west now turn their heads to the slaughters done in the name of "democracy."
It also begins this way.

Zap
28-10-2010, 07:38 AM
The same way that the citizens of the west now turn their heads to the slaughters done in the name of "democracy."
It also begins this way.

Indeed.
Mix in the religious right and you've got a pot of tyranny soup, waiting to boil over.
Nothing wrong with religion as long as people keep it to themselves.
I will defend your right to believe in god as long as you defend mine to deny his existance.
Stick to that framework and we'll get along fine, religiously. Many folks don't want to follow that golden rule.

Add to that, a corporate agenda in the US that excludes all other agendas through might and the power of corruption and we begin to see we're headed for a very dark place.

There will come a time where each one of us is called upon to defend our rights before the last of them are snuffed out. I wonder how many of us will rise to the challenge and how many will just go with the flow.