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Ferre
08-02-2011, 12:05 PM
If there's one thing that made this revolution in Egypt clear is that America prefers backing dictators above people's democratic movements.

There is no need to pretend that an army that is entirely build up with USA material and USA funding would not obey orders coming from the USA. After al the Egyptian army depends on the USA for present and future maintenance. spare parts and ammunition for their entire war fleet.

What we have seen the Egyptian army do, after talks at the pentagon between Egyptian generals and US officials, is actively supporting the present regime including president (read; dictator) Mubarak and trying to discourage the pro-democracy protesters.

On top of that reports show that the army (in corporation with the "security police) has arrested around 10.000 people since the army got involved "protecting the people".

Events still unfolding...

Some links to make following events easy;

Al jazeera Live; Al Jazeera English: Live Stream - Watch Now - Al Jazeera English
(http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/)
Guardian live updates; Egypt protests - Tuesday 8 February (part 2) | News | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/feb/08/egypt-protests-live-updates1)

Ferre
08-02-2011, 05:34 PM
Egypt protests - Tuesday 8 February (part 2) | News | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/feb/08/egypt-protests-live-updates1)


In the most disturbing development in days, during a private meeting today vice president Omar Suleiman warned of a coup "to protect Egypt" – the Associated Press has a piece reporting further details of Suleiman's hostile comments:


Vice President Omar Suleiman warned Tuesday that "we can't put up with" continued protests in Tahrir for a long time, saying the crisis must be ended as soon as possible in a sharply worded sign of increasing regime impatience with 16 days of mass demonstrations.

Suleiman said there will be "no ending of the regime" and no immediate departure for President Hosni Mubarak, according to the state news agency MENA, reporting on a meeting between the vice president and the heads of state and independent newspapers.

He told them the regime wants dialogue to resolve protesters' demands for democratic reform, adding in a veiled warning, "We don't want to deal with Egyptian society with police tools."

At one point in the roundtable meeting, Suleiman warned that the alternative to dialogue "is that a coup happens, which would mean uncalculated and hasty steps, including lots of irrationalities. We don't want to reach that point, to protect Egypt."

Pressed by the editors to explain the comment, he said he did not mean a military coup but that "a force that is unprepared for rule" could overturn state institutions, said Amr Khafagi, editor-in-chief of the privately-owned Shorouk daily, who attended the briefing. "He doesn't mean it in the classical way."

"The presence of the protesters in Tahrir Square and some satellite stations insulting Egypt and belittling it makes citizens hesitant to go to work," he said. We can't put up with this for a long time, and this crisis must be ended as soon as possible.

He warned that calls by some protesters for a campaign of civil disobedience are "very dangerous for society and we can't put up with this at all."

The comments sound like a worrying development after the calm of recent days. This may be Suleiman's private face: no surrender. I bet he didn't mention any of that in his phone chat with Joe Biden earlier today.

Ferre
09-02-2011, 03:27 AM
Another day...

Egypt protests - Wednesday 9 February | News | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/feb/09/egypt-protests-live-updates-9-february)


8.36am: The Egyptian newspaper, Youm7, has images and reports of violence overnight in the town of Al-Wadi al-Jadid in the south-west (http://www.youm7.com/News.asp?NewsID=348042&SecID=12&IssueID=150). It says 100 people have been injured including eight seriously.

Scott Lucas, an academic from the University of Birmingham, writing on the blog Enduring America has an unconfirmed report of a "massacre" taking place in the area (http://www.enduringamerica.com/home/2011/2/9/egypt-and-beyond-liveblog-surge.html). It names one man reported to have been killed.


The police cut off the electricity and water about 2-3 hours ago. They fired live bullets at the protesters. After brutally beating the protesters, the police were forced to retreat. While retreating they set a gas station on fire. The protesters successfully put out the fire using buckets full of sand.

The protesters set the NDP HQ, Governorate building, and the police station on fire (the police station is unconfirmed). The police arrested a lot of youth randomly and took them to an unknown destination. Also the police set a lot of convicts from the Wadi Prison free to scare the people,keeping only political detainees. The latest news was that the convicts are set to attack the museum, and the protesters are preparing Molotovs for defense. Mohammed Hassan Belal, a 20-year-old protester, is the first confirmed death.

Strong
09-02-2011, 05:54 AM
I suspect the West is shitting itself big time over the situation in the Middle East at present, as is Israel. They have no idea where 'The People' in the Middle East will take their nations and the fear is they will go the radical route. Now if this was done through democratic elections, what could the West do apart from reaping the consequences of continued support for dictatorship.

And the oil :sqeek:

That's the big fear, where will the oil come from.


America particularly are in a tough spot, having backed Mubarak for so long, they couldn't just keep quiet, they had to come out in support of the revolution, and that is what it is turning into, else they could lose everything if the people won. But what is happening now is even more problematic. What if the regime hung on to power, with as you say the military dependent on the US for supplies?

It is perhaps apt at this time of year, the Chinese New Year, that a Chinese curse is brought to mind for the West, that is, "May you live in interesting times".

Sometimes you have to let others decide their own futures and not interfere.

Ferre
09-02-2011, 01:02 PM
America is ruled by a bunch of nazis who have supported about every dictator in the past 150 years, in fact they have supported more dictators than democracies and have even toppled more democratic regimes with the help from "friendly dictators" than any other country on earth.

In fact, when people are suppressed by their governments you can bet your ass that America is involved in keeping it that way. That's historic fact.

Ferre
09-02-2011, 03:41 PM
How hard would it be to back Egyptian democracy, Mr President?

This is a simple enough choice between liberty and tyranny, yet the White House has done nothing but equivocate and dodge


How hard would it be to back Egyptian democracy, Mr President? | Joshua Treviño | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/feb/09/barack-obama-white-house-egypt)


Now, though, the post-Mubarak era is both imminent and inevitable – it was so on 25 January – and when it comes, over 80 million Egyptians will remember not that Obama was nuanced and deliberate, but that the United States of America stood against its advent.

The real tragedy of the president's epic mishandling of Egypt is not merely the sceptical-at-best Egypt that will emerge. It's that Egypt is merely the latest episode in a pattern laid down by Barack Obama in the first two years of his presidency. In just two years, he has faced multiple crises of liberty, democracy and the American national interest abroad – and he has failed each test. Even rhetorical support for those seeking freedom, the bare minimum a president can do, is strikingly absent except under duress.

The plain and pathetic reality is that Barack Obama chooses the existing regime over any alternative, and/or against the American ally, every time. Ask the Hondurans who ejected their Chavista president. Ask the Falkland islanders sold out by the Secretary of State Clinton intoning on the "Malvinas". Ask the east European Nato members stripped of a full American deterrent in the name of a Russia "reset". Ask the Tunisians who received not a word of endorsement as they ejected Ben Ali. Ask the Iranians who fought and died for their freedom in the hot summer of 2009.

Strong
10-02-2011, 06:26 AM
Mean while on tumblr: :sqrolleyes:

ewomack
11-02-2011, 12:36 PM
All I can say is that Mubarak resigning was not what I expected. Now if he just stays resigned and doesn't pull a Bonaparte...

ewomack
11-02-2011, 12:40 PM
Of course, there is this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12433045), from the BBC:


But the army takeover looks very much like a military coup, our correspondent adds.

The constitution has been breached, he says, because officially it should be the speaker of parliament who takes over, not the army leadership.

Ferre
11-02-2011, 02:09 PM
Egypt was a military dictatorship to begin with, how I read it is that the army pulled out the goons they had working in the government for them and are now considering how they can keep control over those parts of a new democratic system that represents their interests (https://www.cia.gov/) the best while giving the people some sort of civilian democratic parliament.

I'm looking forward to the army's statement #4

Strong
11-02-2011, 02:32 PM
It will be very sobering to wake up tomorrow in Egypt and realise the job has only just been started. The big question is what the military will do, but then that was the question at the start wasn't it.

Time will tell if real freedom is on the cards or whether the military have been playing their own game.

Halo
25-02-2011, 11:58 AM
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