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Zap
05-05-2011, 07:11 AM
WTF? People? Sheeple?
Do we not require proof of anything before accepting it as fact anymore?
It's no damn wonder we're treated like idiots by governments. Most of us are!

Osama Bin Laden was (allegedly) killed, identified and disposed of within 24 hours.
How do we know this? Because the US government told us.

There was no independent identification of the body. No eyewitness accounts. Nothing.
We're just supposed to accept this as fact because a government says so?!?!? WTF?!?!?
Since when, has a statement by a government leader been accepted as proof of anything?
Are we so lost that we'll accept something as truth, just because it might be something we want to hear?

Maybe he's dead. Maybe he's not. There is no verifiable proof, either way.

And this was not a simple oversight, either.

Osama Bin Laden is public enemy #1 in many countries. He's responsible for thousands of deaths, billions of dollars of damages and trillions of dollars in military and security expenditures world wide. How could anyone think that we would buy the excuse that he was buried at sea "according to muslim tradition"? Don't you think we could/should have dispensed with tradition, just this once and denied the spawn of Satan his rightful immediate burial just long enough to independently identify him?

The whole operation reminds me far too much of the quick, efficient disposal of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Should have been a no-brainer that independent identification would be necessary, especially for a President who has been haggling over the legitimacy of his own birth certificate for years!

This was not an oversight.

Do you believe that US Navy Seals killed Osama Bin Laden on May 1st, 2011?
This poll is anonymous. Please feel free to vote your true feelings.

tsdesigns
05-05-2011, 07:45 AM
He was buried at sea not for Muslim tradition, but rather because they didn't want Muslim extremists making a shrine around his grave.

I agree that we need some kind of proof, but it's a pretty sensitive situation. Releasing proof will anger a lot of people, even if it's "leaked", and could easily cause Muslim extremists to attack again.

Zap
05-05-2011, 08:06 AM
He was buried at sea not for Muslim tradition, but rather because they didn't want Muslim extremists making a shrine around his grave.
With an issue that is this important to so many around the world, I think independent identification of the remains should have taken priority over everything else. We need to be sure. We'll never have that now.
And he wasn't buried according to Muslim tradition and the US administration knows that.
They dumped him into the ocean. Nothing traditional about that. They killed him on land and took him to the ocean to dispose of him.
Muslim tradition permits burial at sea when burial on land is not possible.


I agree that we need some kind of proof, but it's a pretty sensitive situation. Releasing proof will anger a lot of people, even if it's "leaked", and could easily cause Muslim extremists to attack again.
Muslim extremists will attack again, regardless. So, I don't accept that as a valid reason for not allowing his death to be verified by an independent source. The extremists can be equally angered by news that he was killed, or news that he was dumped at sea.

It's precisely because the situation is so sensitive, that we really needed to be sure that this really happened. Now, we'll never be sure.

Strong
05-05-2011, 08:17 AM
The word of a politician, how much is that worth in normal human currency?

Kennedy was an adulterer while President.
Nixon.
Clinton shagged his intern.
Bush; rendition, torture, mass murder, assassinations.
Obama promised to close Guantanamo, it was supposed to be his first priority, heck a vast chunk of America doesn't even recognise him as their President.

It is difficult for any rational person to accept the word of another without proof, especially in a matter of such import.

As for the trouble it would cause if the 'pictures' were released, well you are damn if you do and, as is the case, you will be damned if you don't. The announcements have been ridiculous, and so many changes and retractions, I'm left wondering if any of it is true. And if it is true, it has been very badly managed.

BTW it doesn't make sense. He was unarmed, how could he have been an immediate threat? If he wasn't a threat, bearing in mind he wasn't/isn't a well man, why was he not captured? The intelligence they could obtain would have been invaluable would it not? Currently it makes no sense, hence conspiracy theories abound. The only way to lay it to rest would be the full, unexpurgated story, with pictures and video footage, including the DNA evidence. (BTW where did they get the DNA they are comparing with?).

In the words of Clint Eastwood, "It's a cluster fuck!".

At present it is just the word of Obama speaking for his country. That ain't good enough any more. I wouldn't be surprised if Osama was alive and well at some secret US military base being tortured. Sad isn't it, when even I, mostly sane and level headed think so badly of America.

I blame Bruce Willis.

Zap
05-05-2011, 08:25 AM
It's very possible he died ages ago. His health was terrible.

Nothing has been put to rest. On the contrary, they've ensured that theories will go on forever.

Strong
05-05-2011, 08:36 AM
As I understand it, it couldn't have been a proper Muslim burial because the prayers have to be said by some sort of certified religious guy, who was not present. But who knows what the full story will be come next week.

Zap
05-05-2011, 08:48 AM
The issuance of statements and subsequent retractions by the US administration also hasn't helped their case.
Even if they decide to release photographs now, we all know the power of Photoshop in the right hands.
They should never have disposed of the body so quickly.
They've only doomed us to constant reports of people spotting Osama and Elvis having afternoon tea together.

feklar
05-05-2011, 10:11 AM
Despite the terrible crime Osama has been accused of, I still believe in the presumption of innocence and due process.

What proof do we have? The statements from the US government and the translation of inaudible video tape by the CIA? The same bodies that were certain that Iraq had WMD, I think not.

I thnk he should have been brought to trial, in a public forum (not military trial).

BTW, the burial at sea, out of respect for Muslim tradition? If you want to respect Muslim tradition, don't build military bases on their holy land.

Zap
05-05-2011, 10:20 AM
Kinda hard to make sure he's facing Mecca when you dump him in the ocean. ;)

Big Dan
05-05-2011, 12:00 PM
I thought it all happened way to fast. Dead, DNA confirmed, and disposed of within what 18 hours.

Doesn't DNA usually take weeks to process? Or is that just because of backlog?

If it's really him I'm glad he's dead. The world is a better place without him that's assuming he just wasn't some scapegoat from day 1.

ewomack
05-05-2011, 06:28 PM
Why can't anything end up clean in situations like this? My strange feelings began the second I read that he was supposedly "buried at sea." Why? What could that possibly do apart from raise suspicions. As usual, the "official" story is just there for us to wonder over. We're all helpless to take people's word for things anyways thanks to the hugely dispersed media. This goes for most news (most of which is likely contrived anyway in a Bernays-eque manner).

In the end, I don't know. I wasn't there. And I don't know anyone who was. I have nothing else to go on. Plus, was he ever indubitably tied to 911? I think he supposedly "confessed" to it - but anyone can confess to anything. Once again, where's the proof?

I know nothing.

Zap
05-05-2011, 07:10 PM
In the end, I don't know. I wasn't there. And I don't know anyone who was. I have nothing else to go on. Plus, was he ever indubitably tied to 911? I think he supposedly "confessed" to it - but anyone can confess to anything. Once again, where's the proof?

I know nothing.

He, apparently, never even confessed to it. He never denied it, either.
The tape where he supposedly confessed was later shown to be faked.

Ferre
06-05-2011, 02:02 AM
He surely denied doing it; Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks - CNN (http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/us/inv.binladen.denial_1_bin-laden-taliban-supreme-leader-mullah-mohammed-omar?_s=PM:US)


In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, "The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.

"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said.

"I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.

Ferre
06-05-2011, 02:15 AM
Also, let's not forget that this world has international agreements and laws in place that provides the legal means for nations to extradite suspected criminals in order for them to face justice.

Let us not forget that the Afghan government offered to hand over Bin Laden to America if proper procedures of showing evidence for the alleged crimes was respected by the USA.

Bush rejected that offer; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bush-rejects-taliban-offer-to-surrender-bin-laden-631436.html


After a week of debilitating strikes at targets across Afghanistan, the Taliban repeated an offer to hand over Osama bin Laden, only to be rejected by President Bush.

The offer yesterday from Haji Abdul Kabir, the Taliban's deputy prime minister, to surrender Mr bin Laden if America would halt its bombing and provide evidence against the Saudi-born dissident was not new but it suggested the Taliban are increasingly weary of the air strikes, which have crippled much of their military and communications assets.

Remember that "evidence"? This is the same "evidence" that Bush&co said they had to the United Nations and which they promised to provide to the UN but instead of providing that "evidence" they started to bomb Afghanistan.

Strong
06-05-2011, 07:57 AM
Apparently: Al-Qa'ida confirms Bin Laden's death (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/alqaida-confirms-bin-ladens-death-2280118.html)


The statement's authenticity could not be independently confirmed, but it was posted on websites where the group traditionally puts out its messages.

Zap
06-05-2011, 09:15 AM
Apparently: Al-Qa'ida confirms Bin Laden's death (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/alqaida-confirms-bin-ladens-death-2280118.html)

I would too, if he were still alive. :sqwink:

And, Ferre, I had never heard of his denial. I did, however, know that the released confession was a fake.

Ferre
06-05-2011, 01:09 PM
Of course Al CIAda confirms his death. :sqlaugh:

Strong
07-05-2011, 12:22 PM
You two are even more cynical than me :sqlaugh:

fastreplies
10-05-2011, 11:49 PM
Oh boy, liberal conspiracy theorists… and they told me it never would happen.

What do you believe they all are watching? Debbie does Dallas?

http://www.amray.com/web/c-room.jpg

I want you to look carefully and you will spot some faces that belong to Republicans and if
you still believe in your crazy conspiracy theory, then as Obama says, your hands should be examined.

Do you really believe that Republicans would let Obama to get away with some charade?
Oh, I know, you believe that they too participants of Obama’s conspiracy.

Let me remind you that before Obama was elected, he made a promise to find and to kill
Osama and maybe I missed something, but I can’t recall him promising public trial spectacle.

fastreplies

Zap
11-05-2011, 07:36 AM
Oh boy, liberal conspiracy theorists… and they told me it never would happen.

What do you believe they all are watching? Debbie does Dallas?

http://www.amray.com/web/c-room.jpg

I want you to look carefully and you will spot some faces that belong to Republicans and if
you still believe in your crazy conspiracy theory, then as Obama says, your hands should be examined.

Do you really believe that Republicans would let Obama to get away with some charade?
Oh, I know, you believe that they too participants of Obama’s conspiracy.

Let me remind you that before Obama was elected, he made a promise to find and to kill
Osama and maybe I missed something, but I can’t recall him promising public trial spectacle.

fastreplies

I offered no conspiracy theory, so quit trying to paint me with that brush.
I merely pointed out that we usually require proof of something before accepting it as fact.
What does your picture prove, other than a group of government witnesses got together to view the same thing?

You don't even know for a fact if it's the killing of Osama they are watching or Dancing With The Stars. You can't see what they're looking at.
And if the masses at large can be fooled, what makes you think a room full of politicians can't be?

Honestly! What kind of horseshit passes as proof these days?

fastreplies
11-05-2011, 03:30 PM
I merely pointed out that we usually require proof of something before accepting it as fact.

Just because you have no idea what kind of eyewitness accounts are available it doesn’t make in any way an absence of them and if you’re expecting US Government will spill all over highly confidential information just to satisfy your “natural mistrust” then think again. Frankly I don’t care to know about minuscule detail at this point in time because I’m sure those details will come up in good time.


What does your picture prove, other than a group of government witnesses got together to view the same thing?

As to what people in room are watching, you’re right we can’t see it and as I said they maybe watching Debbie does Dallas, except… we know that Seals had video cameras mounted on top of their helmets that were streaming direct video feed of what was happening life… maybe even via Skype and I won’t be surprised when one day we learn that they were watching that feed.

fastreplies

Zap
11-05-2011, 05:31 PM
we know that Seals had video cameras mounted on top of their helmets that were streaming direct video feed of what was happening life

We don't know that at all.
Nothing has been proven.

RedPill
12-05-2011, 10:45 AM
I find it very difficult to believe that if they were there and it did happen, that it wasnt all filmed.

so either they dont want to show us what actually went on, or...?

RedPill
12-05-2011, 10:49 AM
In the words of Clint Eastwood, "It's a cluster fuck!"

:) i was thinking more of "C'mon punk, make my day.." ?

once again Ron Paul seems to be the lone voice of reason in the Govt

Ron Paul wouldn't have approved Osama bin Laden operation - Juana Summers - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54822.html)


"I think things could have been done somewhat differently," Paul said this week. "I would suggest the way they got Khalid [Sheikh] Mohammed. We went and cooperated with Pakistan. They arrested him, actually, and turned him over to us, and he's been in prison. Why can't we work with the government?"

Asked by WHO Radio's Simon Conway whether he would have given the go-ahead to kill bin Laden if it meant entering another country, Paul shot back that it "absolutely was not necessary."

"I don't think it was necessary, no. It absolutely was not necessary," Paul said during his Tuesday comments. "I think respect for the rule of law and world law and international law.

Zap
12-05-2011, 10:49 AM
It would have been a very simple matter to fly 10 randomly selected DNA experts onto the ship to verify the identity of the body and videotape the autopsy.
That would have been proof enough for the world since any of these DNA experts could have been contacted later on to give testimony as to what they witnessed.
The identities of the Navy Seals would still be protected, as is the same with the identities of all on board the boat.

But they didn't do that. They foolishly dumped the body at sea and that dumb move ensured that this issue can never be put to rest.

fastreplies
12-05-2011, 03:08 PM
We don't know that at all.
Nothing has been proven.

Forget about your brainstorming for a moment and show me 1 fact
contrary to what Obama is claiming happen and then we’ll talk.

fastreplies

Zap
12-05-2011, 03:53 PM
Forget about your brainstorming for a moment and show me 1 fact
contrary to what Obama is claiming happen and then we’ll talk.

fastreplies

I didn't make the initial claim. Obama did.
The onus is on him to prove his claim. Until then, it can not be considered fact.

fastreplies
12-05-2011, 08:18 PM
I didn't make the initial claim. Obama did.
The onus is on him to prove his claim. Until then, it can not be considered fact.

This is just fucking ridiculous.
Asking Obama for proof that Bin Laden is dead is like asking guy who is facing
murder charges in a Court of Law to proof that he’s indeed killed the guy.

If you wanna to play armchair Persecutor at least come up with facts that
will substantiate your claims. So speak now, or forever hold your peace.

In a mean while I’ll give you something real to talk about
Bachmann, other lawmakers see bin Laden photos; convinced "we got our man" - Political Hotsheet - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20062269-503544.html)

fastreplies

Zap
12-05-2011, 08:50 PM
This is just fucking ridiculous.
Asking Obama for proof that Bin Laden is dead is like asking guy who is facing
murder charges in a Court of Law to proof that he’s indeed killed the guy.

If you wanna to play armchair Persecutor at least come up with facts that
will substantiate your claims. So speak now, or forever hold your peace.
You appear to have no clue about how burden of proof works.
Read up on it and then come back to continue this debate.
While you're gone, consider this...

If I tell you that Santa Claus is real, is the burden on you to prove that he's not?
Of course not. That would be stupid. :sqwink:


In a mean while I’ll give you something real to talk about
Bachmann, other lawmakers see bin Laden photos; convinced "we got our man" - Political Hotsheet - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20062269-503544.html)

fastreplies
I guess you've never heard of Photoshop, huh?
Check out the Adobe website for a list of it's abilities and then check out YouTube to see just what people can do with it.
You'll quickly begin to realize we've entered an age where photos can not be trusted, circumstantial evidence at best and that's only when accompanied by some hard evidence, of which we have none.

Without proof, the killing of Osama is just another fairy tale like the existence of Santa Claus. Now, I can't tell you whether or not to believe in Santa Claus. You'll have to decide that for yourself. But I know what I believe. I believe in what can be proven. That's where you and I differ, I guess.

Have a very Merry Christmas. :sqwink:

Strong
13-05-2011, 11:09 AM
What!?!

Did I get that right!?!?!?!

Are you saying that Santa Claus is NOT real? How can you live so close to the North Pole and say things like that? Isn't that like blasphemy or something? Aren't you scared the elves will come and get you at night?

Next you'll be telling me the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny are just to scare children!

I don't believe this forum. All my dreams shattered in one thread. Oh woad is me, my beliefs are no more, I have nothing but the FSM left to guide my path. :sqfrown:

The Dalai Lama, he IS real isn't he? He lives on a cashmere farm in Devon right? :smiley with a pleading look in his eye:

fastreplies
13-05-2011, 01:27 PM
I offered no conspiracy theory, so quit trying to paint me with that brush.

LOL, what are you calling every post you made in this thread so far, all your factless doubts?

Oh, I know, you just using every possible angle any good conspiracy theorist would use but...
you are not one of them.
Conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory)

fastreplies

Zap
13-05-2011, 06:58 PM
LOL, what are you calling every post you made in this thread so far, all your factless doubts?

Oh, I know, you just using every possible angle any good conspiracy theorist would use but...
you are not one of them.
Conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory)

fastreplies

Straw man.
Quit trying to ascribe a position to me.
I'm skeptical. That's all. You're not. I've got some land in Florida you might be interested in. :sqlaugh:

fastreplies
13-05-2011, 11:44 PM
I've got some land in Florida you might be interested in.

Are you talking about land I told you not to buy?
No, but thank you for asking. You can keep it.

http://www.amray.com/web/thatsfunny.gif

fastreplies

Ferre
14-05-2011, 07:20 AM
So far the US government has provided ZERO evidence of this alleged killing of Osama Bin Laden.

Also, till this very day the US government has provided ZERO evidence of Osama Bin Laden's involvement in 9/11.

What the US government DID provide evidence for is their ability to LIE about about every single aspect of this so called war on terrorists including the lies provided as a reason to invade both Afghanistan and Iraq and fake "bin Laden video's".


So yes, some people might be a little sceptical. :sqlaugh:

Zap
14-05-2011, 08:41 AM
Since when are politicians known for telling the truth? :sqconfused:

How anyone could just blindly trust them is beyond my comprehension.

fastreplies
14-05-2011, 12:42 PM
Just wondering if you will submit to 2 undeniable facts

Navy Seals conducted operation with objective to get Bin Laden
Bin Laden’s wife (well, all 3 of them) confirmed that Seals killed Bin Laden


fastreplies

Ferre
14-05-2011, 12:52 PM
1 - indeed undeniable

2 - For this we have to rely on statements by Pakistani "intelligence" and this is not entirely reliable.

So far we have not seen any interview with alleged wife(s) who confirmed this well? Now that would be evidence, maybe this will come in the future but till then all we get is "stories" even when those stories come from official sources.

Official sources have lost their credibility and that is their own doing, now they have to deal with the consequences and those are that no one with a sane mind can take their word for anything any more.

Zap
14-05-2011, 01:18 PM
Even the first point is not proven.
Give me the name of a single Navy Seal who has provided testimony to the fact that the operation even took place. Just one name will do. :sqwink:

fastreplies
14-05-2011, 02:40 PM
Even the first point is not proven.
Give me the name of a single Navy Seal who has provided testimony to the fact that the operation even took place. Just one name will do. :sqwink:

Man, you should stop eating cookies Ferre sends you (Ferre bro, send some to me too)
and instead take a look at “Photoshopped picture” of crashed helicopter.

What do you see?
I tell you what I see?
I see unwanted evidence of the fact that Navy Seals raid took place.

Did it ever occurred to you that if this chopper never crashed, US Government would deny
any knowledge of what happened and you would have nothing to talk about?

fastreplies

Zap
14-05-2011, 05:03 PM
So you have no names and no witnesses, and therefore, no proof.

Understood. :sqwink:

fastreplies
14-05-2011, 07:20 PM
So you have no names and no witnesses, and therefore, no proof.

You mean like proof of “Photoshop” edited video footage of crashed helicopter?

I’m sure you will find “trust your own eyes” proof footage on CNN… well, that is
of course if CNN eyewitness reporters are not on your Government conspirators’ list.

fastreplies

Zap
14-05-2011, 09:15 PM
You mean like proof of “Photoshop” edited video footage of crashed helicopter?

I’m sure you will find “trust your own eyes” proof footage on CNN… well, that is
of course if CNN eyewitness reporters are not on your Government conspirators’ list.

fastreplies

A crashed helicopter is proof of nothing except gravity.

Hey fastreplies...I guess a crashed sleigh is proof that Santa Claus exists. :sqlaugh:

http://wwwDelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1842/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1842R-2136.jpg

Muddy
14-05-2011, 09:19 PM
A crashed helicopter is proof of nothing except gravity.

Hey fastreplies...I guess a crashed sleigh is proof that Santa Claus exists. :sqlaugh:

http://wwwDelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1842/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1842R-2136.jpg

Nope, it's proof that Navy Seals drive sleighs.

fastreplies
14-05-2011, 10:25 PM
A crashed helicopter is proof of nothing except gravity

Just like that, not even what helicopter?

Gravity, eh.
That explains what your brain is doing inside of your ass.

http://www.amray.com/web/hit.gif

fastreplies

Muddy
15-05-2011, 12:11 AM
Oh no! Not the ol' "brain in the ass" rebuttal!

Muddy
15-05-2011, 12:12 AM
Rebuttal! Oh I crack myself up!

Muddy
15-05-2011, 12:12 AM
OMG! Crack! My sides hurt!

fastreplies
15-05-2011, 12:37 AM
Hey Mud, still running posts count...

http://www.amray.com/web/finger2.gif

fastreplies

Muddy
15-05-2011, 12:51 AM
Hey Mud, still running posts count...

http://www.amray.com/web/finger2.gif

fastreplies

I don't give a flying shit about post counts.

Ferre
15-05-2011, 10:14 AM
Remember that "situation room picture"?

http://i.imgur.com/rSBAT.png

Remember the US government official statement on that picture? They said that it was Obama and staff in the situation room viewing real life footage of the so called attack.

The day after the same US government told us that the connection had gone down during the raid.

They lied about that picture, Obama and staff were not viewing the so called raid, below pictures have as much value as "evidence" as the picture supplied by the US government;

http://i.imgur.com/VWuwQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8SrF1.jpg

Just-as-much. :sqlaugh:

Halo
15-05-2011, 10:34 AM
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
~Jesus (or so i was told)



Zap= unGodly heathen
:D

Zap
15-05-2011, 11:00 AM
Just like that, not even what helicopter?

Gravity, eh.
That explains what your brain is doing inside of your ass.

http://www.amray.com/web/hit.gif

fastreplies

Don't get all pissy with me, just because I require a little bit of proof before believing something I'm told by politicians.
I'm not bothering you because you want to believe in fairy tales, am I?

Some of us require a little bit of proof before accepting something as fact, fastreplies. I don't expect you to understand that concept, but I do expect you to be respectful of those who do.

Ferre
15-05-2011, 11:35 AM
Point is Fastreplies, in defence of those who are sceptical, the past decade the USA has lost about all credibility on telling the rest of the world anything remotely truthful.

That is a fact, like it or not.

If we had to list all the proven lies we have been told by the US government since 9/11 it would takes weeks of typing and as much time to read them all.

Now we have to believe they killed a man that has been declared dead at least five times before in the past years and we have to take them on their word that there is no body and they did the dna tests and it was him.

Yeah,...sure. We believe that instantly. :sqlaugh:

fastreplies
15-05-2011, 12:42 PM
Don't get all pissy with me, just because I require a little bit of proof before believing something I'm told by politicians.

You don’t have to tell me about fucking mistrust of the Government because
I have lived in country where lie has been Law of the Land and I can promise
you that my mistrust is bigger than all of your mistrust combined but when it
comes to facts you want me to present and all you can say is ‘gravity’, then
don’t be so fucking sensitive and get pissed off if I show to you the same level
of respect you showed me.

If you wanna serious discussion then proof me wrong like a man but if you
wanna steer poop like Muddy does, then I have nothing else to say to you.

2 facts

Helicopter
Wives


Make your case.

fastreplies

pctec
15-05-2011, 06:00 PM
Decorum ROCKS!

I didn't know FR was cable of swearing - swearing + instigating = sweargating - A master Sweargator - AMS for short - FR is an AMS - All of these acronyms is making me feel like Im in the military - I do believe that would make me a militant fuck!

On a side note... NM

Zap
16-05-2011, 07:12 AM
You don’t have to tell me about fucking mistrust of the Government because
I have lived in country where lie has been Law of the Land and I can promise
you that my mistrust is bigger than all of your mistrust combined but when it
comes to facts you want me to present and all you can say is ‘gravity’, then
don’t be so fucking sensitive and get pissed off if I show to you the same level
of respect you showed me.

If you wanna serious discussion then proof me wrong like a man but if you
wanna steer poop like Muddy does, then I have nothing else to say to you.

2 facts

Helicopter
Wives


Make your case.

fastreplies

You still don't get it.
I have no case to make. I'm not the one making statements as fact.

Your helicopter is proof of nothing more than gravity. If you don't like that reality, it's not my problem. A helicopter crash can take place at any time, anywhere. There have been other helicopter crashes throughout history. Are they all proof of the killing of OBL? Of course not. But you want people to believe that this one is? Why? Tell us HOW this helicopter crash is PROOF of the killing of anyone.

If you want proof of death for someone, you require a body. An old wives tale is not going to suffice. You should know better.
If your wife told the cops that you were dead, would they take her word for it? Of course not. They'd conduct an investigation and look for what? :sqwink:

Zap
16-05-2011, 07:28 AM
Hey Look...

Osama's Dead. (http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/national/article/131232--canadian-helicopter-crashes-on-landing-in-afghanistan-four-soldiers-injured)

Oh Oh! He's dead again (http://www.thestar.com/news/article/984199--u-s-aviation-authorities-probe-helicopter-crash-with-three-canadians-on-board).

Oh my godness.. They killed him a third time (http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20090312/chopper_crash_090312/)! :sqeek: :sqwink:

ewomack
16-05-2011, 01:06 PM
The war room picture has already been altered, though apparently for "sexually aggressive" reasons. Why alter anything? Why not let the photo stand? What can we trust in the media? How do we even know that the original photo was accurate? For some people, Hillary Clinton wasn't even present, according to the photo they saw.

Links from various sources:

-Clinton ommitted from Osama picture (http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/05/hasidic-paper-removes-hillary-clinton-from-osama-picture-567.html)
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/05/09/2011-05-09_brooklyn_hasidic_paper_der_tzitung_cuts_sec_of_ state_hillary_clinton_out_of_bin_.html
-http://www.newser.com/story/118103/hillary-clinton-removed-from-iconic-white-house-situation-room-photo-in-hasidic-jewish-newspaper.html

Apparently the newspaper has apologized, but only after a storm of criticism. But the point remains that if Hillary never appeared in the photo (say she was cut out of all versions) no one would know to complain. Be careful out there.

fastreplies
16-05-2011, 04:43 PM
Osama's Dead.

Are you sure?

People spotted bin laden working as security guard at Oriental rugs shop
in Memphis Tennessee, next to Elvis Presley’s Blue suede shoes store

http://www.amray.com/web/bin.jpg

fastreplies

Zap
16-05-2011, 07:14 PM
Are you sure?

People spotted bin laden working as security guard at Oriental rugs shop
in Memphis Tennessee, next to Elvis Presley’s Blue suede shoes store

http://www.amray.com/web/bin.jpg

fastreplies

That's part of my point.
The US administration could have done things right, provided undeniable proof of OBLs death and none of this would be happening.
But they fucked up..... Royally!

We'll have Bin Laden sightings right along side Elvis sightings for eternity now.

Muddy
16-05-2011, 07:22 PM
There's more proof that Elvis is dead.

Zap
16-05-2011, 07:39 PM
There's more proof that Elvis is dead.

Doesn't seem to keep people from seeing him at the grocery store, though, does it?

Ferre
16-05-2011, 08:54 PM
FACT: The US government has no body of Osama Bin Laden.

We can do two things; either believe the US government's version of why they do not have a body to show. Or not.

Let us not forget that we are also still waiting for the evidence that Bin Laden was involved with 9/11 to begin with. Evidence that was supposed to be handed to the UN because that was the pretext to invade Afghanistan but the UN is still waiting for that evidence.

Some people do not have a short memory, despite some pot use. :sqwink:

fastreplies
16-05-2011, 09:00 PM
The US administration could have done things right, provided undeniable proof of OBLs death and none of this would be happening.


You mean proof like nailing bin Laden to crucifixion and post it on Ground Zero
for everybody to see?

Well, I can hear you’re claiming that this is not Osama but some guy who got
plastic surgery to look like bin Laden… that new studies doubt validity of DNS
and would give your usual conspiracy theorists arsenal of denials from your
overnight bag of doubts.

Simple truth for conspiracy theorists fact as a proof doesn’t exist and never will
because gut is a very poor substitute for a brain.

fastreplies

Muddy
16-05-2011, 10:31 PM
Waste of time Zap.

Halo
17-05-2011, 03:36 AM
Apparently the newspaper has apologized, but only after a storm of criticism. But the point remains that if Hillary never appeared in the photo (say she was cut out of all versions) no one would know to complain. Be careful out there.

What if Hilary was to ever become president? Or heaven forbid, Sarah Palin. :3argh:


Would this be a pic of her addressing a group of women?
http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv145/bretbaxley/White%20House%20B/PressBriefingRoom.jpg





Ed, when you mentioned the phrase "sexually aggressive", I have to admit that this popped into my head:
http://btwimho.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1807&stc=1&d=1305621216




:3smile:

Zap
17-05-2011, 07:24 AM
Waste of time Zap.
I still have hope this can be turned around.


You mean proof like nailing bin Laden to crucifixion and post it on Ground Zero
for everybody to see?
That's ridiculous.


Well, I can hear you’re claiming that this is not Osama but some guy who got
plastic surgery to look like bin Laden… that new studies doubt validity of DNS
and would give your usual conspiracy theorists arsenal of denials from your
overnight bag of doubts.
I'm not claiming anything. Obama is.
It's up to him to prove it.


Simple truth for conspiracy theorists fact as a proof doesn’t exist and never will
because gut is a very poor substitute for a brain.

fastreplies
No. The simple truth is that there are a lot of people who aren't convinced of Osama's death because the US administration did a colossally piss poor job of providing evidence that they killed him.
There are no wild conspiracy theories here, despite you're trying to shove them down my throat at every opportunity.
Stick to the facts, fastreplies, and you'll quickly discover that there are none.
Your assertion that Osama was killed is no more credible that those wacky conspiracy theories you like to shoot down because there are no facts to back it up.

I'm not saying I know what happened, or even putting theories out there.
I'm just saying I don't believe Obama just because he's Obama.
I want evidence, not stories.

Strong
17-05-2011, 08:45 AM
Ooooo! I've got another one, conspiracy theory that is!

Sky News' expert reported that the descriptions given by a Senator who had seen the 'so called' pictures of the supposedly dead Bin Laden would suggest to an expert that he had been executed. The Senator said that an eye was missing and part of the skull had been shot off. The suggestion being that he was shot through the back of the head.

An unarmed man shot through the back of the head, hmmm ... That's a good one to be chewing over.

It suggests pictures do exist and some have been shown them. Now all we have to do is get a forensic pathologist to examine them in detail. But if Sky News' expert is to be believed I guess that ain't gonna happen.

How's that for a conspiracy.

Where is wikileaks when you need them.

Ferre
17-05-2011, 11:43 AM
http://i.imgur.com/Lgsci.jpg

RedPill
17-05-2011, 12:16 PM
actually suggest to me probably face shots, smaller entry wounds larger exit wounds. standard military (SF anyway) double tap is to upper lip, taking out spinal cord for instant stoppage, and likely most of what's of behind that.

basically back of head gone doesnt necessarily mean shot in the back of the head, although of course, who knows? wouldnt surprise me much either.


Ooooo! I've got another one, conspiracy theory that is!

Sky News' expert reported that the descriptions given by a Senator who had seen the 'so called' pictures of the supposedly dead Bin Laden would suggest to an expert that he had been executed. The Senator said that an eye was missing and part of the skull had been shot off. The suggestion being that he was shot through the back of the head.

An unarmed man shot through the back of the head, hmmm ... That's a good one to be chewing over.

It suggests pictures do exist and some have been shown them. Now all we have to do is get a forensic pathologist to examine them in detail. But if Sky News' expert is to be believed I guess that ain't gonna happen.

How's that for a conspiracy.

Where is wikileaks when you need them.

fastreplies
17-05-2011, 08:32 PM
I'm not saying I know what happened, or even putting theories out there.
I'm just saying I don't believe Obama just because he's Obama.
I want evidence, not stories.

Evidence, what for?
Example you called ridiculous is exactly what you will do if you finally get some.
You will find a dozen of excuses to justify your mistrust no matter what kind of
evidence you will have.

I bet if you were in the same room next to Osama witnessing what is happening,
you would still deny what you saw because it would spoil your believes.
As Groucho Marx says: Who are you going to believe, me or your lyin' eyes?

fastreplies

Zap
17-05-2011, 08:54 PM
Evidence, what for?
Example you called ridiculous is exactly what you will do if you finally get some.
You will find a dozen of excuses to justify your mistrust no matter what kind of
evidence you will have.

I bet if you were in the same room next to Osama witnessing what is happening,
you would still deny what you saw because it would spoil your believes.
As Groucho Marx says: Who are you going to believe, me or your lyin' eyes?

fastreplies

You're still spouting bullshit with no hard facts to back that bullshit up.
When you have some verifiable, factual information, feel free to post again.

Strong
18-05-2011, 08:05 AM
actually suggest to me probably face shots, smaller entry wounds larger exit wounds. standard military (SF anyway) double tap is to upper lip, taking out spinal cord for instant stoppage, and likely most of what's of behind that.

basically back of head gone doesnt necessarily mean shot in the back of the head, although of course, who knows? wouldnt surprise me much either.

Ah! Did I mention the piece of missing skull in the temple area? My mistake, just pretend I'm American :sqwink:

The suggestion was that he was shot in the back of the head, the exit wound blowing his eye and part of his skull off. That's the thing when you don't explain yourself very well and miss half the detail and provide no pictures; people misunderstand, through no fault of their own might I add.

:sqlaugh:

Americans; you have to love them and hate them at the same time :sqwink:

Apart from Ed, how could anybody hate Ed. (You can't hate what may or may not be real. I wonder if he's sorted out his existentialist problem yet? Ed? Are you with us Ed? I wonder if a ouija board might help? Maybe we could contact Osama and get his perspective while we are at it, or is my cross fertilization between religions inappropriate? Damn I'm asking too many questions again aren't I. Maybe I should stop?)

:sqerr:?

Muddy
18-05-2011, 10:59 AM
How could anyone hate Muddy? Okay...I guess I can think of some reasons.

Zap
18-05-2011, 11:42 AM
I think many people say they hate or dislike Americans and/or the US when they're really talking about the government of the US.
Or, even more specifically, American foreign policy.

Strong
18-05-2011, 01:03 PM
^ a fine and correct distinction!!!

It is the crazed American right that gives me the heebeegeebees, the rest of America ain't that bad. Take Ed and Watley for instance, fine upstanding Americans I would be proud to call Europeans :sqwink:

Strong
19-05-2011, 11:37 AM
OKay folks, here it is, I knew it would be eventually, the picture you have all been desperate to see. Everything appears on the internet eventually. The picture the Americans refused to release to the world for fear of the damage it would cause. For those faint of heart please do not click on the following link, you have been warned!!!

Osama Bin Laden's assassination photograph, click to see! (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/the-daily-cartoon-760940.html?ino=14)

(If at first you don't succeed try again later, the Independent is down at present, the link was fine before.)