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Strong
29-01-2012, 07:38 AM
Atheist brands? What's it all about?

There seems to be at least two camps; Alain de Botton and Richard Dawkins.

Alain de Botton reveals plans for 'temple to atheism' in heart of London (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/26/alain-de-botton-temple-atheism)

Dawkins seems too militant to me, I think I'm in favour Mr de Botton. But temples to atheism, not sure really, just look up at the stars.

Atom
30-01-2012, 01:33 PM
My motive would be purely sarcastic to the religious cathedrals, though it does seem a waste of money. I would be reluctant to promote it as an antidote to Dawkins, despite his views on it.

Atom
30-01-2012, 01:57 PM
I think that atheists need to stick together. Atheism and religion are like David and Goliath, respectively.

Strong
30-01-2012, 02:00 PM
I think we can live together as long as we are tolerant of each other's positions.

If elves and dwarves can do it why can't we? :sqwink:

fastreplies
30-01-2012, 03:15 PM
I think we can live together as long as we are tolerant of each other's positions.

And how you suppose we do that?

???:pray:???

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Atom
30-01-2012, 04:56 PM
If someone asks me what religion I am I tell them I'm an antagonist.

Atom
30-01-2012, 05:09 PM
I just hope no one tries scaling the walls for that band of gold.

ewomack
30-01-2012, 06:50 PM
Why not just use the Precious Moments Chapel (http://www.preciousmoments.com/content.cfm/park_chapel)?

It's more of a shrine to consumerism, just like all of the big awesome building we have now...

What makes me a little queasy about Botton's "temple" is that awe-inspiring buildings often represent some form of power. Churches are often beautiful, yes, but they also run riddled with power. How to make a "temple" that doesn't suggest some form of power structure behind it? And who would fund it? And what say would the funders have in the construction and symbolism? Too many questions... I'd rather sit in a park...

Muddy
30-01-2012, 10:00 PM
Here's an interesting graphic.

USATODAY.com - Topography of religion (http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/pew-religion-08/flash.htm)

Note that OR, CO, and VT/NH have the largest percentage of non-believers.

Strong
31-01-2012, 01:48 PM
^ cool interactive graphical statistics!

Strong
31-01-2012, 01:57 PM
And how you suppose we do that?

???:pray:???

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Understanding.

It goes a long way and makes tolerance possible, even acceptable.

If you need a model of how it can work look back to Mogul India where Hindus and Muslims lived and prospered together and shared their respective 'wisdom' with each other.

fastreplies
31-01-2012, 02:24 PM
Understanding.

It goes a long way and makes tolerance possible, even acceptable.

If you need a model of how it can work look back to Mogul India where Hindus and Muslims lived and prospered together and shared their respective 'wisdom' with each other.

Sharing wisdom would be good starting point if at least one of the parties would have
any of that stuff but when one side insists that life begins immediately after I come,
even before I finished my cigarette and wants to make it Law of the Land…
what wisdom are you talking about then?

What do you want me to understand?
Do you want me to accept some idiots believes that contraceptives are killing babies
thus by Law they should be banned and that some bible head will decide level of
women rights when it comes to basic freedom of choice not to mention their own bodies.

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Strong
03-02-2012, 02:10 PM
Well your first mistake is to call them idiots, that shows a lack of understanding right there.

fastreplies
04-02-2012, 02:20 PM
Well your first mistake is to call them idiots, that shows a lack of understanding right there.

Okay, if it makes you feel better, I call them geniuses...

What do you want me to understand?
Do you want me to accept some geniuses believes that contraceptives are killing babies
thus by Law they should be banned and that some bible head will decide level of
women rights when it comes to basic freedom of choice not to mention their own bodies.

Let me make something clear in here.
I have no problems with religion but I have problem with people who are using it as a tool.

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Atom
04-02-2012, 03:17 PM
Some use religion as a tool and some use Tool (http://www.btwimho.com/showthread.php?5961-Tool-In-Toronto) as a religion.

Cryren8972
06-02-2012, 05:25 AM
So I read this, and I thought, "ban contraceptives? What? Is? He? Talking? About?" I did a Google, and realized he was referring to Santorum. To be honest, I wouldn't vote for this guy...LOL. Now it makes sense, it was a political reference and not necessarily a religious one. And yes, I get that Santorum is definitely a religious weirdo, but the statement itself was from a political standpoint. It's not a popular opinion in any religion. I know many Catholics that use birth control...or they would be in the same position as the family that had 20 children. You have to use SOME form of birth control. Even the rhythm method is a form of birth control, no matter how you slice it. So fastreplies, go ahead and practice birth control. Please. :sqwink:

Cryren8972
06-02-2012, 05:29 AM
Correction: 19 children, I did another Google search, and apparently she miscarried the 20th. This is what happens with no birth control....and it can't be good for her, poor thing.

Atom
06-02-2012, 12:55 PM
I wonder if God is an atheist.

Strong
06-02-2012, 01:04 PM
Okay, if it makes you feel better, I call them geniuses...

What do you want me to understand?
Do you want me to accept some geniuses believes that contraceptives are killing babies
thus by Law they should be banned and that some bible head will decide level of
women rights when it comes to basic freedom of choice not to mention their own bodies.

Let me make something clear in here.
I have no problems with religion but I have problem with people who are using it as a tool.

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No! That's even worst than before. :sqfrown:

At least you were being honest then.

Your problem isn't just saying they are stupid, it is actually believing they are stupid.

Have you never read my signature dude!?!


"People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they’re not on your road doesn’t mean they’ve gotten lost." Dalai Lama

That of course is a very general point, but you can apply it to what we are discussing.

Let me try and explain, but in all honesty, it is more a matter of you coming to the understanding for yourself, but here goes:
You might be right, I might be right, they might be right, in fact in some strange way we may all be right simultaneously, who knows? Not me, not you and not them. Since we live in that kind of reality, all you can do is accept that you may be wrong, and if you do, well who is to say the others are not right.

At the end of the day it is all about perception, and since we perceive the world through our senses and our senses can be fooled or at least mistaken or we may only be able to perceive part of the truth then fuck, everybody is allowed to believe what they want.

All you can do is do your thing up to the point where it impinges upon the thing of others, if you get my meaning.

In summary; live and let live.

fastreplies
06-02-2012, 01:25 PM
Santorum is a tip of the iceberg but you can read what is below in here
contraceptives law - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?q=contraceptives%20law&hits=25&disp=Text+Only#q=contraceptives+law&hl=en&prmd=imvnsu&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=rBMwT46ZLIn02QXitbyFDw&ved=0CEsQqAI&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=217d028d3692084&biw=1016&bih=642)

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Atom
06-02-2012, 01:54 PM
Could there be a being responsible for life after the big bang, and might that being be atheist?

Atom
06-02-2012, 02:20 PM
What if the god (creator) of life is the only true god, and the big bang simply happened? That would mean that there is no creator of everything, and the god of life could then be atheist.

Atom
06-02-2012, 02:27 PM
This of course would also mean that all atheists and believers alike are incorrect in their beliefs/disbelief's, except god (atheist).

Atom
06-02-2012, 02:37 PM
So then... we have a god that knows that it is not God. Hmmm..

gonna have to give this one some thought lo!

Atom
06-02-2012, 02:41 PM
Is that sexy or what? I combined a lower case L with an exclamation point. Genius!

Atom
06-02-2012, 02:43 PM
Probably not the best of ideas, that atheist cathedral.

Atom
06-02-2012, 03:06 PM
I mean I think it's ok to have a few here and there out of pure sarcasm, but this goes beyond that.

To my knowledge, it's not possible to make something out of nothing.

Atom
06-02-2012, 03:25 PM
If you start with nothing, you end with nothing. Both atheists and believers start with, literally, nothing.

Atom
06-02-2012, 04:29 PM
I think it's every true atheist's job to start with nothing and go nowhere with it.

Atom
06-02-2012, 04:49 PM
I'll admit that oftentimes it seems there should be some great answer to all this, but I think that's just my right hemisphere acting up again.

Cryren8972
06-02-2012, 08:02 PM
In all honesty, if you read what is actually going on, the insurance companies don't want to provide this free of charge. They would like to make a buck, yanno.

Cryren8972
06-02-2012, 08:03 PM
I wonder if God is an atheist.

No, and neither is the Prince of Darkness, if you get down to it....:sqlaugh:

Atom
06-02-2012, 10:59 PM
No, and neither is the Prince of Darkness, if you get down to it....:sqlaugh:I agree on both counts. The way I see it, god is not an atheist for one of two reasons, either because he is God, or because he does not exist.

fastreplies
07-02-2012, 03:12 PM
No! That's even worst than before. :sqfrown:

At least you were being honest then.

Your problem isn't just saying they are stupid, it is actually believing they are stupid.

Problem? It would be problem only if I believed otherwise.
People who are forgetting that they are not alone in this world and that there are others who
don't want to submit to their way of thinking not to mention live under their rules in my book
out of their minds.


Have you never read my signature dude!?!

LOL, have you never read my signature dude!?!


There is very good reason why pigs never judge kanolies competition


That of course is a very general point, but you can apply it to what we are discussing.

Let me try and explain, but in all honesty, it is more a matter of you coming to the understanding for yourself, but here goes:
You might be right, I might be right, they might be right, in fact in some strange way we may all be right simultaneously, who knows? Not me, not you and not them. Since we live in that kind of reality, all you can do is accept that you may be wrong, and if you do, well who is to say the others are not right.

At the end of the day it is all about perception, and since we perceive the world through our senses and our senses can be fooled or at least mistaken or we may only be able to perceive part of the truth then fuck, everybody is allowed to believe what they want.

All you can do is do your thing up to the point where it impinges upon the thing of others, if you get my meaning.

In fact what you are saying, you don't know what fact is even if one is steering in your face
and would rather to accept fact as perception and not a real thing. Well, you're most definitely
entitled to your own "perceptions" but not to your own facts.

Sure people are entitled to make up their own "truth" and to believe in it if they want to and
as long it doesn't affect my well-being and if they stay away out of my way, they can choke on it.


In summary; live and let live.

If you honestly believe in what you just said, then you must to believe that only idiots would try
to stop us from living our lives the way we and not they want us to live.

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Halo
08-02-2012, 02:29 AM
Alexander An, a 31-year-old civil servant, is facing five years in prison after being charged with defamation of religion.

He says he started to question the existence of God when he was a child.

Although the country is officially secular, every Indonesian has to have a religion and register himself according to one of the official five religions.


eQxaET3phys



In summary; live and let live.
:sqcool::sqeek::sqcool:
JK2hKzZss5Y

Atom
08-02-2012, 11:42 AM
Everyone is born agnostic; a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic.

Atom
08-02-2012, 11:55 AM
So.. when your kids are old enough to ask; what religion am I?, tell them the truth; agnostic.

Atom
08-02-2012, 12:04 PM
An infant could be baptized a dozen times and it would still be agnostic.

Atom
08-02-2012, 12:05 PM
Me? I was lied to. I was told I was a catholic.

Atom
08-02-2012, 12:10 PM
Thing is, my parents were never liars. I came to find out they were just very well conditioned though I could always tell my dad was never really on board with it.

Atom
08-02-2012, 12:20 PM
Ok so we're going through all this unbelievable religious bullshit and along comes the 60's and everything changed, Thank God!

Atom
08-02-2012, 01:51 PM
Can you believe it? My mom actually thought having us all baptized at infancy made us catholics because that's what her mother was taught to believe and so on. I can hardly believe it. She eventually snapped out of it mostly, but not entirely. I have to hand it to her though, because her religious conditioning as a child was more severe than mine was.

Cryren8972
08-02-2012, 10:12 PM
Hm, I wonder how you could explain me? I was introduced to both ideals as a child. My stepfather and mother were atheists, my father and his family baptist. I lived with my mother and stepfather as a child, so their beliefs should have been the ones to "stick" if I had been incapable of forming my own opinion.

Atom
08-02-2012, 10:17 PM
Hm, I wonder how you could explain me? I was introduced to both ideals as a child. My stepfather and mother were atheists, my father and his family baptist. I lived with my mother and stepfather as a child, so their beliefs should have been the ones to "stick" if I had been incapable of forming my own opinion.Atheists don't have "beliefs".

fastreplies
09-02-2012, 01:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8U_JveHS8E

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09-02-2012, 02:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAvDtPz33w0

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fastreplies
09-02-2012, 02:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fys3MsKMpms

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09-02-2012, 02:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udzymvKOyCY

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Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 08:46 AM
Oh, let me rephrase. I could have believed there was or wasn't a God. I got to choose.

Zap
09-02-2012, 11:46 AM
Oh, let me rephrase. I could have believed there was or wasn't a God. I got to choose.

I was sort of in the same boat.

My mom was religious. My dad had/has no taste for religion.

I was exposed to a few religions early on.
Got to choose for myself, pretty much as soon as I was able to.

fastreplies
09-02-2012, 01:08 PM
Oh, let me rephrase. I could have believed there was or wasn't a God. I got to choose.

We all are making mistakes now and then.

In your case, as a child you probably have had believes in fairytales truthfulness and when
time came to choose between Biblical and Newton’s apples, you chose one that looks so tasty
and appetizing no fairytales loving child would oppose to go along with.

The good news, you can switch between 2 apples any time you want to.

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Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 01:09 PM
We all are making mistakes now and then.

In your case, as a child you probably have had believes in fairytales truthfulness and when
time came to choose between Biblical and Newton’s apples, you chose one that looks so tasty
and appetizing no fairytales loving child would oppose to go along with.

The good news, you can switch between 2 apples any time you want to.

fastreplies

Actually, I was atheist for a while. How's that grab ya?

Muddy
09-02-2012, 01:12 PM
I love it when Cry says, "grab ya"!

Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 01:12 PM
And as for questioning my rational thoughts as a child, I realized early on there was no tooth fairy or Santa Claus when my father forgot to set out my Easter basket one year. So believe it or not, I was fully capable of making rational decisions based on data presented. I was presented both sides. Neither of which seemed like a "fairy tale" option. Some events happened in my life that made me question my atheist beliefs. The more I tried to convince myself there wasn't a God, the more I leaned toward their being one. I researched, asked, pondered, and looked at the facts presented to me and made a rational decision in my mind. I have a feeling if you were to do some research on your own, you'd find that it's not only "idiots, zealots, morons," etc that believe. Many scientists have come to the same belief based on what they've observed.

fastreplies
09-02-2012, 01:16 PM
Actually, I was atheist for a while. How's that grab ya?

I'm shocked...

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Atom
09-02-2012, 01:25 PM
And as for questioning my rational thoughts as a child, I realized early on there was no tooth fairy or Santa Claus when my father forgot to set out my Easter basket one year. So believe it or not, I was fully capable of making rational decisions based on data presented. I was presented both sides. Neither of which seemed like a "fairy tale" option. Some events happened in my life that made me question my atheist beliefs. The more I tried to convince myself there wasn't a God, the more I leaned toward their being one. I researched, asked, pondered, and looked at the facts presented to me and made a rational decision in my mind. I have a feeling if you were to do some research on your own, you'd find that it's not only "idiots, zealots, morons," etc that believe. Many scientists have come to the same belief based on what they've observed.


Many scientists have come to the same belief based on what they've observed.I disagree, Cry. I don't think it's many. I think that the majority of scientists are agnostic or atheist.

fastreplies
09-02-2012, 01:28 PM
So believe it or not, I was fully capable of making rational decisions based on data presented. I was presented both sides. Neither of which seemed like a "fairy tale" option.

Wrong.
Newton's gravity theory is a fact, other is a fairytale.


Some events happened in my life that made me question my atheist beliefs. The more I tried to convince myself there wasn't a God, the more I leaned toward their being one. I researched, asked, pondered, and looked at the facts presented to me and made a rational decision in my mind. I have a feeling if you were to do some research on your own, you'd find that it's not only "idiots, zealots, morons," etc that believe. Many scientists have come to the same belief based on what they've observed.

Okay, help me out here.
Show me 1 fact that will convinced me that God exists.

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Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 01:28 PM
Scientists' Belief in God Varies Starkly by Discipline | LiveScience (http://www.livescience.com/379-scientists-belief-god-varies-starkly-discipline.html)

This boasts about a third Science vs. Religion: How many scientists actually believe? (http://www.annarbor.com/faith/science-vs-religion-what-are-scientists-religious-beliefs/)

Mind you, I said many, not majority. What I'm trying to prove is, not all believers are idiots. I'm tired of the assumption.

Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 01:33 PM
Being an ex atheist, I'm well aware that no matter what I say, or what facts I present, you're going to be a disbeliever. All I'm asking is for a little "live and let live" here that Strong suggested with you, and what you, yourself always scream when you feel your rights have been violated. Your beliefs are sacred to you, and so are mine. We have different life paths that have led us to believe what we believe. What you might not understand, is that I have been where you are...so in my mind, I'm further down the road than you are as far as putting two and two together. Maybe, just maybe, I think YOU'RE the one that isn't grasping the truth.

fastreplies
09-02-2012, 01:34 PM
Mind you, I said many, not majority. What I'm trying to prove is, not all believers are idiots. I'm tired of the assumption.

Mind you, I said only those who are trying to use religion as a tool.

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Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 01:35 PM
I could give you many instances and facts that have led me to believe what I believe. And you could do the same. I could shoot holes in your facts, and you could shoot holes in mine. Hence the reason we are even having this discussion. If either side could prove without doubt the other, we wouldn't be questioning.

Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 01:36 PM
Mind you, I said only those who are trying to use religion as a tool.

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Your implications with the fairy tale statement was that I was tiptoeing through life grasping fairy tales with both hands singing "la la la" without rational thought. I disagree. :sqlaugh:

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09-02-2012, 01:40 PM
Maybe, just maybe, I think YOU'RE the one that isn't grasping the truth.

You better believe me when I say: I'm not grasping your truth.

BTW, I'm waiting for one single fact.

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09-02-2012, 01:43 PM
Your implications with the fairy tale statement was that I was tiptoeing through life grasping fairy tales with both hands singing "la la la" without rational thought. I disagree. :sqlaugh:

Are you using your believes as a tool?

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Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 01:47 PM
Are you using your believes as a tool?

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One statement had nothing to do with the other.
I could ask the same of you. State one fact that can't be disputed that supports your position. On second thought, I have a feeling a theological discussion with you would give me a bit of a headache, and I would be no further along than I am now. You don't seem to be open to a whole lot of opinions.

Atom
09-02-2012, 01:55 PM
Scientists' Belief in God Varies Starkly by Discipline | LiveScience (http://www.livescience.com/379-scientists-belief-god-varies-starkly-discipline.html)

This boasts about a third Science vs. Religion: How many scientists actually believe? (http://www.annarbor.com/faith/science-vs-religion-what-are-scientists-religious-beliefs/)Cry, out of the millions of scientists in just this country alone, are you actually expecting me to think that this survey of 1,646 faculty members at elite research universities means anything? I certainly hope not.


Mind you, I said many, not majority. What I'm trying to prove is, not all believers are idiots. I'm tired of the assumption.I personally feel that very few believers are idiots, they are simply conditioned, some much more than others.

Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Interesting article. Scientists Speak Up on Mix of God and Science - New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/national/23believers.html?pagewanted=all)

Evolution and Religion Can Coexist, Scientists Say (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1018_041018_science_religion.html)

Survey: 1 in 3 Scientists Believe in God, Christian News (http://www.christianpost.com/news/survey-one-third-of-scientists-believe-in-god-39753/)

You all know my take on this. I believe if Scientists would look for a link between Creationism and Evolution, the real truth would arise. I think both are so flawed because they aren't connecting. The reason they aren't connecting is because both sides are so hard headed. Just sayin...

Atom
09-02-2012, 02:12 PM
Cry, out of the millions of scientists in just this country alone, are you actually expecting me to think that this survey of 1,646 faculty members at elite research universities means anything? I certainly hope not.

They said it was based on a previous survey as well but didn't even bother to say how many were questioned in that one.

fastreplies
09-02-2012, 02:12 PM
I have a feeling a theological discussion with you would give me a bit of a headache...

You can also use one of the following


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU7TdZSRcpo

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Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 02:14 PM
I personally feel that very few believers are idiots, they are simply conditioned, some much more than others.

I was never "conditioned". Am I an anomaly? I could just as easily say atheists were conditioned as well. How I wish I could break through the barriers here and get to some real discussions on the matter. Not the same ones where everyone says, "I believe, and I don't". I mean, even a WHY do you believe would be a welcomed question. I keep hoping with the brilliant minds on here we could come up with some brilliant ideas of our own. Not the same ones that have been floating around for decades.

Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 02:16 PM
You can also use one of the following


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU7TdZSRcpo

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Use as? Proof? I'm taking Tylenol now....

Atom
09-02-2012, 02:24 PM
I was never "conditioned". Am I an anomaly? I could just as easily say atheists were conditioned as well. How I wish I could break through the barriers here and get to some real discussions on the matter. Not the same ones where everyone says, "I believe, and I don't". I mean, even a WHY do you believe would be a welcomed question. I keep hoping with the brilliant minds on here we could come up with some brilliant ideas of our own. Not the same ones that have been floating around for decades.


I was never "conditioned". (...)I doubt that very much. Also, I have a strong feeling that you were never a true atheist. I'm not trying to pick an argument here, these are just my feelings, take them as you wish.

Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 02:45 PM
I doubt that very much. Also, I have a strong feeling that you were never a true atheist. I'm not trying to pick an argument here, these are just my feelings, take them as you wish.

When I was little, my Mother and Father didn't really go to church. My mom left my father when I was five, I chose to stay with him. That Easter, he forgot my basket, as I mentioned earlier, making me realize that not only was there no Easter Bunny, but also no Santa Clause or tooth fairy. I remembered hearing a little about God, but brushed it off the same day. I moved in with my mother and stepfather, both were atheists. I started going to church on my own when I was about nine...because I was curious. They had snacks too! The church bus would come pick me up, and I would leave by myself to go. When I tried to stop, my stepfather forced me to go saying that it had been my decision, and I should stick with it. So I did. Right on up until my mother passed away when I was 14. She committed suicide. I made it back to that church about six months later looking for peace. The pastor had heard my story and knew I was coming. He immediately starting preaching about how committing suicide sent you straight to Hell. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. I immediately rejected the church, God, and everything else. I rationalized that God was a bunch of bunk, and committed to that five year old's belief that there wasn't one. I lived my life that way, and believed that way until I was 21. However, in this time, I researched witchcraft, paganism, druids, etc. I was determined to prove to myself there was NO GOD. Or else that would mean that my mother was damned. I worked very hard and researched everything I could get my hands on. Evolution was a favorite of mine. AHA! How can there be a God, if we came from monkeys? So yes Atom, I believe I was as atheist as anyone. I suppose you could say that my trying to prove there was no God wasn't a disbelief altogether, but I assure you, I was convinced.

Fast forward. My daughter, who was age five at the time, was riding in the car with me on the way to work one day. She had never heard talk of Angels, God, Hell, Satan...etc. She never went to church, and her father and I were atheists...

We had a car accident. Pretty severe....the car flipped one and a half times, landing on the top. I'm buckled in, upside down, and I hear my daughter say from above me, Mom are you OK? I thought...she is NOT in her seat belt!!!!! I panicked, but I managed to say, "Yes, are YOU OK?"

Imagine my surprise when she said, "Yes Mommy, I'm fine, an angel held my arm."

I was banged up pretty badly. Bruises, cuts, my back and neck were sprained, and I had crushed a disc in my lower back. My daughter, who had been thrown clear of her seat belt and tumbled around the car one and a half times, didn't have a bruise. Not even a headache.

That was step one.

Many other things happened which I may go into later, but I admit, I prayed for the first time in years that day. I said Thank you. I may have been talking to no one. But I don't think so.

Atom
09-02-2012, 02:54 PM
When I was little, my Mother and Father didn't really go to church. My mom left my father when I was five, I chose to stay with him. That Easter, he forgot my basket, as I mentioned earlier, making me realize that not only was there no Easter Bunny, but also no Santa Clause or tooth fairy. I remembered hearing a little about God, but brushed it off the same day. I moved in with my mother and stepfather, both were atheists. I started going to church on my own when I was about nine...because I was curious. They had snacks too! The church bus would come pick me up, and I would leave by myself to go. When I tried to stop, my stepfather forced me to go saying that it had been my decision, and I should stick with it. So I did. Right on up until my mother passed away when I was 14. She committed suicide. I made it back to that church about six months later looking for peace. The pastor had heard my story and knew I was coming. He immediately starting preaching about how committing suicide sent you straight to Hell. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. I immediately rejected the church, God, and everything else. I rationalized that God was a bunch of bunk, and committed to that five year old's belief that there wasn't one. I lived my life that way, and believed that way until I was 21. However, in this time, I researched witchcraft, paganism, druids, etc. I was determined to prove to myself there was NO GOD. Or else that would mean that my mother was damned. I worked very hard and researched everything I could get my hands on. Evolution was a favorite of mine. AHA! How can there be a God, if we came from monkeys? So yes Atom, I believe I was as atheist as anyone. I suppose you could say that my trying to prove there was no God wasn't a disbelief altogether, but I assure you, I was convinced.

Fast forward. My daughter, who was age five at the time, was riding in the car with me on the way to work one day. She had never heard talk of Angels, God, Hell, Satan...etc. She never went to church, and her father and I were atheists...

We had a car accident. Pretty severe....the car flipped one and a half times, landing on the top. I'm buckled in, upside down, and I hear my daughter say from above me, Mom are you OK? I thought...she is NOT in her seat belt!!!!! I panicked, but I managed to say, "Yes, are YOU OK?"

Imagine my surprise when she said, "Yes Mommy, I'm fine, an angel held my arm."

I was banged up pretty badly. Bruises, cuts, my back and neck were sprained, and I had crushed a disc in my lower back. My daughter, who had been thrown clear of her seat belt and tumbled around the car one and a half times, didn't have a bruise. Not even a headache.

That was step one.

Many other things happened which I may go into later, but I admit, I prayed for the first time in years that day. I said Thank you. I may have been talking to no one. But I don't think so.Wow, ok somebody knows how to type here I see, lol. I myself am not of the ilk. lol

What schools did your parents send you to? And did you watch much TV?

Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 03:02 PM
I went to public school, and yes, I watched TV. My favorite show was 3-2-1 Contact... =)

Atom
09-02-2012, 03:13 PM
I went to public school, and yes, I watched TV. My favorite show was 3-2-1 Contact... =)Well there ya go then, holy ghost, son, father Contact. You are really messed up, dude! ; )

Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 03:15 PM
LOL...3-2-1-Contact was actually a science oriented show directed toward kids. =)

Atom
09-02-2012, 03:16 PM
No but seriously, we've got a real problem with religious invasiveness in this country, it seems to invade everything.

Atom
09-02-2012, 03:27 PM
Not as bad as some other countries certainly, but still I think it's pretty obnoxious, seems even worse down here in the south.

Cryren8972
09-02-2012, 03:27 PM
No but seriously, we've got a real problem with religious invasiveness in this country, it seems to invade everything.

I completely agree with you that religion, as you understand it, is a catastrophic force that has done more damage than good. Ironically, it's actually burning itself out. Slowly, sure...but more and more people are turning away from religion because of it's destructiveness. Anything that has money at the root of it can spiral out of control. Men will shout anything if they stand to make a fortune off of it...or power. The root of Christianity is completely different than the religious dogma that permeates the world now.

Muddy
09-02-2012, 03:38 PM
Your implications with the fairy tale statement was that I was tiptoeing through life grasping fairy tales with both hands singing "la la la" without rational thought. I disagree. :sqlaugh:

rOzmOZQdcYY

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09-02-2012, 03:42 PM
The root of Christianity is completely different than the religious dogma that permeates the world now.

That is where I totally agree with your opinion.

Ancient astronauts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronauts)

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Cryren8972
10-02-2012, 08:49 AM
Don't think I haven't considered the alien idea in my research. =)

Atom
10-02-2012, 08:53 AM
I just got through reading that page, it's interesting. I don't really understand why advanced space travelers would want to build simple things like pyramids.

Atom
10-02-2012, 09:06 AM
Or carve a giant spider into the earth.. what kind of advanced being would want to do such a thing? It just doesn't seem like time well spent to me.

Atom
10-02-2012, 11:50 AM
I must've been sleeping when all these popped into existence. Now I suppose I'll have to look up every one of them, which will probably take me forever if I don't do them all at once. Not really looking forward to it, I'm confused enough as it is.

http://3t9.com/Atom/tinybubbles.jpg

Muddy
10-02-2012, 12:51 PM
Triumphalist??? Wow.

Atom
11-02-2012, 09:25 AM
Yeah, kinda scary that one, I'd never even heard of that before.

Muddy
11-02-2012, 11:49 AM
Nor I.

Atom
11-02-2012, 09:32 PM
I just looked all those up and I think they'll be needing a new one for myself and the like as I think I'm a combo of Antitheist and Agnostic, it just depends which half of the brain happens to be dominant at the time. lol

Atom
11-02-2012, 09:43 PM
And by the power vested in me I now pronounce you all behooved.

Atom
11-02-2012, 09:55 PM
You may kiss the cow.

Atom
11-02-2012, 10:53 PM
"The similarities between all present day organisms indicate the presence of a common ancestor from which all known species have diverged through the process of evolution."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_history_of_life

I suppose there could be a debate about whether the complexity in life we see today could be accomplished by evolution in 3.5 billion years from simple organisms but it seems to me that it would be plenty of time even without the recent evidence that suggests that evolution isn't a linear progression.

Muddy
11-02-2012, 11:56 PM
"To each his own", said the old lady as she kissed the cow.

Atom
12-02-2012, 04:07 PM
I'm having a difficult time finding any good images of Atheist products, a lot of t-shirts though.

http://3t9.com/Atom/JesusJellyBeans_550x412.jpg

Atom
12-02-2012, 04:18 PM
I suppose I could Photoshop up some Atheist chewing gum or something.

Muddy
12-02-2012, 05:11 PM
1992

Strong
13-02-2012, 10:04 AM
Problem? It would be problem only if I believed otherwise.
People who are forgetting that they are not alone in this world and that there are others who
don't want to submit to their way of thinking not to mention live under their rules in my book
out of their minds.
...

Can I ask you two questions dude:

Is it possible for someone to be wrong and sane?

Is it possible for someone to honourably disagree with you and be sane?



...
If you honestly believe in what you just said, then you must to believe that only idiots would try
to stop us from living our lives the way we and not they want us to live.
...

I don't accept the term "idiots", as I have detailed previously. They are just as human as myself, or YOU for that matter.


(Damn! I leave you guys alone with this thread for a couple of days and look what's happened!!! :sqwink:)

Strong
13-02-2012, 10:13 AM
"The similarities between all present day organisms indicate the presence of a common ancestor from which all known species have diverged through the process of evolution."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_history_of_life

I suppose there could be a debate about whether the complexity in life we see today could be accomplished by evolution in 3.5 billion years from simple organisms but it seems to me that it would be plenty of time even without the recent evidence that suggests that evolution isn't a linear progression.

There is speculation at present that life based on separate evolutionary tracks may exist, indeed there are scientists actively searching for it currently. It is not unreasonable that there might be, or indeed that one form that was particularly successful early on monopolised the system entirely. Just because nothing has been found as yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Take planets around other stars, but a few years ago, the vast majority of scientists thought not, currently it is speculated that most if not all, do.

Also, take the eye, how many times has the eye evolved independently? Seven or more if I remember correctly, which is debatable. Well I it is certainly more than once, or even twice, I was quite flabbergasted to hear Attenborough make the statement. I trust him in this, it's his area after all.

fastreplies
13-02-2012, 09:45 PM
Can I ask you two questions dude:

Is it possible for someone to be wrong and sane?

Is it possible for someone to honourably disagree with you and be sane?

Possible and plausible, but because sane people are using their brains and make rational
decisions they’re know exactly: if, why, how and when they were wrong whereas insane
people by replacing their rational thoughts and comprehensions with their guts feelings
instead, paying no attention to basic being and doing wrong concepts.

Possible and plausible, but there is big difference between being disagree but accept others
for whom they are and respect their stance on humanity issues and their opinions, which sane
people most definitely will do and insane who are inconsiderate to how others feel and what
they are believing in.

Examples of difference:
Sane people would try to reach compromise and would be more than willing to change wrong
things (Obama) and insane people (Santorum)


Santorum 1. The frothy mix of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex. 2. Senator Rick Santorum

who would rather commit political suicide than submit to common sense and unprejudiced wisdom.


I don't accept the term "idiots", as I have detailed previously. They are just as human as myself, or YOU for that matter.

Ask me if I care what you call them...
but what I care about, is when next time you quote something, then stick to quoted subject
and leave your remarks like you made above after you give me curtsy of the answer.

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Strong
14-02-2012, 08:36 AM
...
Take planets around other stars, but a few years ago, the vast majority of scientists thought not, currently it is speculated that most if not all, do.
...

Exoplanets are around most stars, study suggests (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16515944)

Strong
14-02-2012, 08:41 AM
Possible and plausible, but because sane people are using their brains and make rational
decisions they’re know exactly: if, why, how and when they were wrong whereas insane
people by replacing their rational thoughts and comprehensions with their guts feelings
instead, paying no attention to basic being and doing wrong concepts.

Possible and plausible, but there is big difference between being disagree but accept others
for whom they are and respect their stance on humanity issues and their opinions, which sane
people most definitely will do and insane who are inconsiderate to how others feel and what
they are believing in.

Examples of difference:
Sane people would try to reach compromise and would be more than willing to change wrong
things (Obama) and insane people (Santorum)



who would rather commit political suicide than submit to common sense and unprejudiced wisdom.



Ask me if I care what you call them...
but what I care about, is when next time you quote something, then stick to quoted subject
and leave your remarks like you made above after you give me curtsy of the answer.

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Oh dear. Well I can die peacefully in the knowledge that I tried.

It seems to me the only reason you are here is to puke up your bile about the republicans and anybody else that gets your goat up and not to have a sensible discourse like civilised people. That's a shame. I suspect that says more about you then it does about me, this forum, or indeed the republicans (who I'm actually not all that fond of). I wonder what lies at the back of all this anger and vitriol, but please don't tell me, I'm really not interested. Enjoy your so called life.

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14-02-2012, 01:20 PM
So being objective and identify wrong doings become a hate these days?

Somebody ask Bill Maher why he hates Republicans and Religion so much
but leaving Democrats alone?
Because when it comes to Democrats as a comedian I have to deal with
drops of water from kitchen sink tab, whereas Republican's and religious idiocy
gives me waterfall of material.

I said it twice by now and will say it again:
I don’t hate Republicans nor I hate religious people but I despise ideology used
by them as a tool and that includes groups, regardless of who these people are,
9/11 hijackers or Christian fanatics who are trying to control majority of people
who are rejecting that ideology.

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14-02-2012, 04:09 PM
Am I only one voice in this forum who is witnessing war against American women?

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fastreplies
14-02-2012, 04:26 PM
LOL, today “religious zealous” are fighting against contraceptives, which makes me to think…
what will be their next subject… man erection followed by masturbation or women who are
using dildos to have a fun without man participation?

What they will do next?

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Muddy
14-02-2012, 04:42 PM
LOL, today “religious zealous” are fighting against contraceptives, which makes me to think…
what will be their next subject… man erection followed by masturbation or women who are
using dildos to have a fun without man participation?

Yes, I believe it will in fact come to that...and more.

Atom
14-02-2012, 04:48 PM
Masturbation is an old subject, I think it's mainly frowned on.

Atom
14-02-2012, 05:05 PM
There is speculation at present that life based on separate evolutionary tracks may exist, indeed there are scientists actively searching for it currently. It is not unreasonable that there might be, or indeed that one form that was particularly successful early on monopolised the system entirely. Just because nothing has been found as yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Take planets around other stars, but a few years ago, the vast majority of scientists thought not, currently it is speculated that most if not all, do.

Also, take the eye, how many times has the eye evolved independently? Seven or more if I remember correctly, which is debatable. Well I it is certainly more than once, or even twice, I was quite flabbergasted to hear Attenborough make the statement. I trust him in this, it's his area after all.I'm thinking I've watched a TV or YT segment concerning eye evolution some while back but I don't have a good recollection of it, seems I recall Attenborough's voice but that may be mold spores in the walls or something, I'll have to check into it, if I did see a clip then I wasn't paying very good attention hopefully, I say hopefully because the other alternative is memory lapse lol.

Strong
15-02-2012, 01:47 PM
I think I may have posted a link to such a clip, but who knows, I don't remember too well either these days.

Checking ...

Can't find the exact one I remember, but this one explains things well, although doesn't mention the number of times the eye has evolved.

David Attenborough On Eye Evolution(Mirror)
iTWB65WXxyQ

Evolution of the eye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye)

Whether one considers the eye to have evolved once or multiple times depends somewhat on the definition of an eye. Much of the genetic machinery employed in eye development is common to all eyed organisms, which may suggest that their ancestor utilized some form of light-sensitive machinery – even if it lacked a dedicated optical organ. However, even photoreceptor cells may have evolved more than once from molecularly similar chemoreceptors, and photosensitive cells probably existed long before the Cambrian explosion.

Strong
15-02-2012, 02:01 PM
The faithful must learn to respect those who question their beliefs (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2012/feb/07/faithful-learn-respect-question-beliefs)

As a scientist, one is trained to be skeptical, which is perhaps why many scientists find it difficult to accept blindly the existence of a deity. What is unfortunate is that this skepticism is taken by many among the faithful to be an attack not only on their beliefs, but also on their values, and therefore leads to the conclusion that science itself is suspect.

Atom
15-02-2012, 05:52 PM
The faithful must learn to respect those who question their beliefs (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2012/feb/07/faithful-learn-respect-question-beliefs)It's not surprising to me that so many people prefer an illogical explanation over a logical one for the existence of everything, considering the thousands of years of fear through ignorance followed by the thousands of years of religious conditioning endured by the generations.

Atom
15-02-2012, 06:19 PM
Religious conditioning being fear through deception. So we've got thousands of years of fear through ignorance with thousands of years of fear through deception on top of it. Wonderful. But I'll tell you what, you get a couple of good scientific discoveries working for you and that could change the game up pretty quickly, so I do have hope.

Strong
25-02-2012, 12:38 PM
Now I'm confused!

Apparently Dawkins is agnostic and not an atheist at all, and everybody has known this since his book the God Delusion! Damnit, I wish somebody would have told me!!! :sqmad:

Richard Dawkins is an agnostic? Well, obviously (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100139447/richard-dawkins-is-an-agnostic-but-we-knew-that-already/)

Atom
25-02-2012, 12:59 PM
Now I'm confused!

Apparently Dawkins is agnostic and not an atheist at all, (...)Not necessarily. The article says "the great evolutionary biologist (Dawkins) said that he can't be certain that God doesn't exist, and that he would call himself an agnostic." This is only one man's opinion. He's written much to be judged by other opinions.

Strong
25-02-2012, 01:20 PM
Atheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athiest)

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

Agnosticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic)

Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1][2] Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the difference between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief. In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify the belief that deities either do or do not exist. Within agnosticism there are agnostic atheists (who do not believe any deity exists, but do not deny it as a possibility) and agnostic theists (who believe a deity exists but do not claim it as personal knowledge).

Should he not be called an agnostic atheists?

Atom
25-02-2012, 01:25 PM
(...) Should he not be called an agnostic atheist?Sounds good to me, though we'll need to take a poll of his readers to be sure.

Atom
25-02-2012, 01:44 PM
This just goes to show you how speculative abstract subjects are.

Atom
25-02-2012, 01:53 PM
Say now what exactly is it we were discussing again?

Atom
25-02-2012, 01:58 PM
I believe that just about sums up the essence of god. We don't even actually know what it is that we are discussing, we however do know what it isn't. For one example; it isn't visible. There are many more examples.

Atom
25-02-2012, 02:07 PM
Such as; it isn't there.


That's probably one of the better ones.

Atom
25-02-2012, 02:13 PM
What kind of a world would this be if everyone went around believing things that obviously weren't true? Pretty goddam nutty don't you think?

Atom
25-02-2012, 03:06 PM
Yes, you have a right to act as if there is something where there is obviously nothing but when a whole bunch of you start doing it, it brings the whole lot of us down a peg on the sanity scale, and when several different whole bunches start doing it well.. let's just say I pity the first aliens that have the distinct misfortune to observe such behavior.

Atom
25-02-2012, 04:15 PM
I don't think it's much of an assumption that they should be quite intelligent to have been able to reach us.

Atom
25-02-2012, 04:19 PM
Anyone notice that Atheist and Aliens look kinda similar? lol

Christ I'll be off talking about chocolate chip cookies here in a minute ..

Strong
26-02-2012, 03:43 AM
What kind of a world would this be if everyone went around believing things that obviously weren't true? Pretty goddam nutty don't you think?


Yes, you have a right to act as if there is something where there is obviously nothing but when a whole bunch of you start doing it, it brings the whole lot of us down a peg on the sanity scale, and when several different whole bunches start doing it well.. let's just say I pity the first aliens that have the distinct misfortune to observe such behavior.

I thought that was pretty much how it was already.

Strong
26-02-2012, 03:44 AM
I believe that just about sums up the essence of god. We don't even actually know what it is that we are discussing, we however do know what it isn't. For one example; it isn't visible. There are many more examples.


Such as; it isn't there.


That's probably one of the better ones.

I wonder if it is possible to define a thing by describing what it isn't?

Atom
26-02-2012, 10:27 AM
I wonder if it is possible to define a thing by describing what it isn't?Sure, if it's actually a thing to begin with.

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26-02-2012, 07:59 PM
I wonder if it is possible to define a thing by describing what it isn't?

Of course it's possible
It's never stopped Religulous enthusiasts from doing that for centuries.

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Halo
27-02-2012, 07:05 AM
I wonder if it is possible to define a thing by describing what it isn't?
We could try it.

Describe what isn't a potato. If that works we can turn the concept into a gameshow and franchise it out.
:)

Atom
27-02-2012, 07:15 AM
We could try it.

Describe what isn't a potato. (...)A potato chip.

Strong
27-02-2012, 01:01 PM
We could try it.

Describe what isn't a potato. If that works we can turn the concept into a gameshow and franchise it out.
:)


A potato chip.

OK, I'll play. :sqlaugh:

But it might help if we were more systematic, so: it is neither an animal or mineral, (which means it must be a vegetable). Now are there any botanists amongst us? Cos we might need one to go much further.